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Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Dr. Caelus » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:24 pm

Rodimus Prime wrote:
Dr. Caelus wrote:I don't have the time to get in a back-and-forth with people I know won't change their minds, but this absolutely needs to be addressed:

Rodimus Prime wrote:
Dr. Caelus wrote:If they speak to their friends, their friends (on places like this website) tend to tell them it's not the time/place for it, and that they should go somewhere else to talk about it.


Is this based on personal experience? Because it can't (or shouldn't) be a generalization. It doesn't happen everywhere. I know this for a fact, because I have black people around me in both a professional and social setting, and I have never refused to speak to them about these things, not out of discomfort or anything else. And any time a discussion took place, I learned something from it.


Hypocrisy.

I'm not black, but I've been alienated, ostracized, or censured enough times for speaking up about these issues and others, to be extraordinarily frustrated, and that's with the benefit of white privilege shielding me from rebukes and winning me credibility with other white people.

But because you're certain you are not guilty of driving people away, because you anecdotally have an exception to the rule, you are prepared to say, 'No, you're generalizing, so this doesn't count,' as if its only racism if 100% of white people are dicks to people of color.

You say the whole argument is null because you've seen exceptions, and object to generalizations. So, how does that fit with your, 'protesters don't deserve our respect because they're vandals, arsonists, and looters' attitude?

I went to a Black Lives Matter protest on Tuesday. No fires, no smashed windows, no injuries. Someone had heat stroke, and there were some creepy white guys watching the protest with binoculars, which seemed ominous, but the protest was 100% peaceful.

So, by your own logic, if some (most) BLM protests do not become destructive, then any 'generalizations' to the contrary must surely be rebuked, and anyone derailing constructive discussion by incessantly returning the topic to the actions of people that BLM has no control over should likely be seen as contributing to the defense of a racist system.
No. Just no.

You're taking 2 separate things and trying to turn them into one. I never once said ALL protesters were vandals and thugs. I specified those who are destructive. Which not all of them are. Don't get yourself confused in your haste to disprove me.

And my previous point only reinforces yours. You have been alienated and ostracized for speaking up on these issues. I have been part of discussions with both those who agree and disagree. I live in South Georgia, there are plenty of ignorant country hicks atound me screaming "'MURICA!!!" any time social issues come up. Can you call that alienation? I don't know. Maybe. When people of my own race look down on me when I disagree with them on things, what is that called?


I do owe you a partial apology. I confused one of your posts with someone else's. You didn't say 'All protesters are destructive' just seemed to dwell rhetorically on those that are, which ends up sounding a lot like concern trolling.

I wish I had time to respond to your other points, but with people talking to me in one year and my child spraying my screen with raspberries, I can't afford the attention it would clearly be due.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:33 pm

Motto: "Individual freedom above all else."
Dr. Caelus wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:
Dr. Caelus wrote:I don't have the time to get in a back-and-forth with people I know won't change their minds, but this absolutely needs to be addressed:

Rodimus Prime wrote:
Dr. Caelus wrote:If they speak to their friends, their friends (on places like this website) tend to tell them it's not the time/place for it, and that they should go somewhere else to talk about it.


Is this based on personal experience? Because it can't (or shouldn't) be a generalization. It doesn't happen everywhere. I know this for a fact, because I have black people around me in both a professional and social setting, and I have never refused to speak to them about these things, not out of discomfort or anything else. And any time a discussion took place, I learned something from it.


Hypocrisy.

I'm not black, but I've been alienated, ostracized, or censured enough times for speaking up about these issues and others, to be extraordinarily frustrated, and that's with the benefit of white privilege shielding me from rebukes and winning me credibility with other white people.

But because you're certain you are not guilty of driving people away, because you anecdotally have an exception to the rule, you are prepared to say, 'No, you're generalizing, so this doesn't count,' as if its only racism if 100% of white people are dicks to people of color.

You say the whole argument is null because you've seen exceptions, and object to generalizations. So, how does that fit with your, 'protesters don't deserve our respect because they're vandals, arsonists, and looters' attitude?

I went to a Black Lives Matter protest on Tuesday. No fires, no smashed windows, no injuries. Someone had heat stroke, and there were some creepy white guys watching the protest with binoculars, which seemed ominous, but the protest was 100% peaceful.

So, by your own logic, if some (most) BLM protests do not become destructive, then any 'generalizations' to the contrary must surely be rebuked, and anyone derailing constructive discussion by incessantly returning the topic to the actions of people that BLM has no control over should likely be seen as contributing to the defense of a racist system.
No. Just no.

You're taking 2 separate things and trying to turn them into one. I never once said ALL protesters were vandals and thugs. I specified those who are destructive. Which not all of them are. Don't get yourself confused in your haste to disprove me.

And my previous point only reinforces yours. You have been alienated and ostracized for speaking up on these issues. I have been part of discussions with both those who agree and disagree. I live in South Georgia, there are plenty of ignorant country hicks atound me screaming "'MURICA!!!" any time social issues come up. Can you call that alienation? I don't know. Maybe. When people of my own race look down on me when I disagree with them on things, what is that called?


I do owe you a partial apology. I confused one of your posts with someone else's. You didn't say 'All protesters are destructive' just seemed to dwell rhetorically on those that are, which ends up sounding a lot like concern trolling.

I wish I had time to respond to your other points, but with people talking to me in one year and my child spraying my screen with raspberries, I can't afford the attention it would clearly be due.
Fair enough. And I will concede that I do keep that topic in the forefront of my discussions a bit too much perhaps, mainly because I want to keep attention on it. I think the honest, grassroots movement of black lives matter is a noble and just cause and I suppoet it 100%. I fear that it will be sabotaged by those on the fringes who wish to hijack it for their own gains, regardless of their motives and ot will become diminished and diluted. That's all. The best way to guard against that is constant vigilance. ;)^
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Burn » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:35 pm

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blueridgefox wrote:Well I didn’t think I’d see seibertron.com go political be here we are. Look, I’m with you on stamping out racism in any form, but this site just isn’t the place

Really? Then where is the place? We shoul donly post about Transformers? Should we then just do away with the General Discussion forum completely in case someone like you comes across a thread they don't want to see?

How has this post affected you personally? Has it in anyway taken away from your love of Transformers? Has it made your life in any way more difficult?

We should be able to come here, free of the societal woes and just enjoy our hobby.

And how exactly are you being stopped from doing that?

We don’t need a lecture from a site admin on why we should feel guilty about an incident that we can all agree was horrible. Please do yourself a favor and regroup whatever personal dignity you have left and run the site as it pertains to the Transformers hobby.

As I said, the GD forums exist. So too does a sub-forum dedicated to non-TF toys. People come to this site for them too.

This is just ONE news post. No one forced you to read it. No one forced you to respond to it.

You did that yourself.

And all you did was make demands to suit you.

There is nobility in actions, not virtue signaling to obtain blue check marks from people who claim to occupy the moral high ground to get sites like yours to bend the knee for the sake of political correctness. BTW, congratulations, you’ve ended racism.

Actions also say a lot about a person.

As I said, you chose to read the article, you chose to respond to it, you chose to demand this sort of thing is not posted simply because you find it annoying.

Congratulations, you're entitled.

DISCLAIMER: The above post is made as a collector of Transformers, an every day bloke, like all of you. It is NOT as the Forum Admin and does NOT represent the views held by the site owner.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby BeastProwl » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:39 pm

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Seibertron wrote:
BeastProwl wrote:I thought making political posts was against the rules. Guess that doesnt matter when youre the site owner though, huh?


That is correct. I generally refrain from using Seibertron.com as my platform for my opinions but felt this moment in time was too big of an issue to ignore. I'm sorry if it upsets you or makes you uncomfortable. It's time to take a stand so here we are. Which Transforners fansite you choose to participate on is your choice. I'm taking a gamble with my business to express my views that I feel is the right thing to do. If you dont like that, no one is forcing you to stay here. I dont want you to leave, but I understand if those of you who are uncomfortable with all of this if you leave. I'm comfortable with doing what I feel is right. I respect your opinion if you dont want to be part of this. This is what I believe in and what I believe is right so here we are. It's time for a change and I want myself and Seibertron.com to be on the side of helping to make a difference for issues that I feel are much bigger than all of us.


The point im trying to make here is that it comes off as a bit hypocritical. Its a fan site, not a political platform. I wont say whether I agree, or disagree, because thats not why I come here. Thats my stance on this. This isnt a political site.

Im a very opinionated person, ide talk your ear off anywhere else, agree with you, disagree with you, get fiery and laugh with you. But this isnt the place, and thats my opinion on the matter.

And leave? Pssssh yall wish, I aint goin nowhere :-D
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby bomington » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:46 pm

WOW. I am so pleasantly surprised as a longtime lurker to return from an afternoon participating in a peaceful march to come back and see this post. I always assumed most collectors in this hobby are generally on the opposite side of the political spectrum as me, generally apathetic, or simply not as informed about such topics. THANK YOU so much for having the ball bearings to speak out.

As an indirect response to some of the ugly comments I just read:

Please stop lumping together all protesters with the rioters and looters. If bad cops should not be representative of all cops, then rioters and looters should not be representative of the protesters. There are people, both black and non-black, who don't care about Black Lives Matter and are taking advantage of the tense situation to enrich themselves. There are black people who are so understandably desperate and frustrated at having their own lives and voices whitesplained to them every day that they (wrongfully) felt that lashing out with violence was the only way to be heard. There, I disavowed the violence so don't even start with saying I condone it. Finally, there are white supremacists and extremist groups with politically-driven agendas who want to smear the Black Lives Matter movement by framing protesters for bad behavior so some of you can point to them and go, "SEE. THOSE PROTESTERS ARE THE BAD GUYS!". If you participate in these groups, stay home and worship your little Decepticon icons.

These people I just described NOT part of this movement. Today I took time off scrolling for the latest leaked upcoming toy images and rearranging my collection to go out and march alongside thousands of peaceful protesters demanding actual equality and justice in America. I had my backpack filled with medical supplies in case any of these bad actors showed up, but fortunately they were not necessary.

Black Lives Matter is not a demand for special treatment. It is a plea for an END to special treatment, in the form of police brutality and racism. If you truly believed All Lives Matter, then this shouldn't be controversial. Police brutality is lightly touched upon in the IDW Til' All are One comics, so get those words out of your mouths if you can't truly have empathy for ALL Americans as one people.

Being able to stay at home and play with our little Transformers and run away from real world problems is a PRIVILEGE. If you don't care to participate in this conversation because it's inconvenient or uncomfortable to, that's understandably your right to do so. But if all you're going to do is play with Transformers all day and not be an informed citizen, don't you dare try to discredit or misrepresent something you have no real life knowledge of.

Black Lives Matter. Til' All are One.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby TK415 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:15 pm

Bounti76 wrote:
UnderYourCloset wrote:All lives matter.

This is a Transformers site. I don't want **** political topics in the news.



It's not politics, it's humanity. Please read it again.


"It's not politics, it's humanity."
Well said man! Thank you.
Last edited by TK415 on Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:18 pm

Motto: "Individual freedom above all else."
bomington, welcome to the board! :D

As for your claim that staying home and playing with Transformers is a PRIVILEGE, I disagree somewhat. Having Transformers means you either had the funds to purchase them, or someone gave them to you. Either way, they were purchased (well, they could have been stolen, but it still cost someone something) and for that you needed money, which had to come from somewhere. If you worked for it or someone else did and you got it as a gift, loan or subsidy, it was still earned. It has value. So when you exchange it for Transformers, it gives you the RIGHT to own those Transformers, and since now they are now your private property, you have the RIGHT to do with them as you wish.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby TK415 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:23 pm

UnderYourCloset wrote:All lives matter.

This is a Transformers site. I don't want **** political topics in the news.

"Black lives matter" means Black lives matter too. There is an implicit "too" there. They are asking for help. They are asking for fair treatment. When you say "All lives matter" you are telling them to be silent. They are asking for help because they are in danger. We must listen when someone asks for help. We must demand policy change to protect all lives. But we can only do that by listening to what is happening to black people. If you ignore them then you are allowing racism to flourish.

This epidemic is all over the US, if you don't have to pay a attention to it then you are fortunate, but it is unethical to do so.
Last edited by TK415 on Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby TK415 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:24 pm

Well done. Well said Ryan. Strong.

Thank you.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Sammythekat » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:49 pm

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Rodimus Prime wrote:bomington, welcome to the board! :D

As for your claim that staying home and playing with Transformers is a PRIVILEGE, I disagree somewhat. Having Transformers means you either had the funds to purchase them, or someone gave them to you. Either way, they were purchased (well, they could have been stolen, but it still cost someone something) and for that you needed money, which had to come from somewhere. If you worked for it or someone else did and you got it as a gift, loan or subsidy, it was still earned. It has value. So when you exchange it for Transformers, it gives you the RIGHT to own those Transformers, and since now they are now your private property, you have the RIGHT to do with them as you wish.


you completely missed his point, mate-

he's saying that being able to stay home and avoid the situation is a privilege, not that owning toy robots is a privilege.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby bomington » Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:22 pm

Thank you! Not how I envisioned my first post, but here I am.

Rodimus Prime wrote:bomington, welcome to the board! :D

If you worked for it or someone else did and you got it as a gift, loan or subsidy, it was still earned. It has value. So when you exchange it for Transformers, it gives you the RIGHT to own those Transformers, and since now they are now your private property, you have the RIGHT to do with them as you wish.


I did originally mean this in conjunction with not wanting to face IRL issues. But to add to this point, I have no doubt in my mind that all of us who love owning and collecting Transformers put in genuine blood, sweat, and tears working for those funds to afford this hobby (except for scalpers). By privilege I do not accuse you or anyone else of maliciously doing something wrong or cheating, but I do mean you did not have the disadvantage of being someone of a different race, with an equal capacity to put in the same blood, sweat, and tears, of being disproportionately disqualified from a job opportunity to earn the funds to afford this hobby. We all know this is against fair labor practices and law, and want concrete statistics to prove it, but unfortunately it still happens and is underreported. At the very least, some people FEEL like it's happening but little to no effort is done to ease this concern.

Edit - Sorry, I don't know what race you are so I can't comment on your experience. I was just trying to explain how collecting TFs COULD be considered a privilege.
Last edited by bomington on Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby megatronus » Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:32 pm

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Black. Lives. Matter.

It's shocking, but honestly not surprising, that there are so many angry, obviously white people on these boards who can't seem to tolerate a single post on a topic that should be apolitical.

This is a welcoming community. But:

If you have to preface your post with "I don't care if this gets me banned" or "I don't want to see **** politics on a Transformers site," then do us all a favor, and leave. The door is right there.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby JomasterII » Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:56 pm

I know I'm one of "those" people here and it's very selfish of me to say, but I kind of wish I didn't have to see this stuff on the site. I personally have immense troubles dealing with stress and I use Transformers and media like that as escapism and a coping mechanism. Waking up to see hot button issues about a country I don't live in that my friends, parents and even my boyfriend are pelting me with when I just wanna see if Hubcap has been released is just such an unexpected curveball and I just don't know how to react to it or deal with it.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Ultra Markus » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:36 am

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firefox91 wrote:To those that respond to "Black Lives Matter" with "All Lives Matter", you're missing the message.


Oh no we don't.
The base of the message sure have good intentions. But the movement have been hijacked from a long time by unscrupulous people and their quest for power.
Because for Black Lives Matters, not all black lives matter at all.

Where is BLM for promoting family values and responsibilities for black fathers?
Where is BLM for the constant gang violence that happen between blacks in the 'hood?
Where is BLM for all those blacks that lost their jobs, their livelihood, and even their homes due to the riots, looting, and burnings?
Where was BLM for the retired St. Louis police Capt. David Dorn when he was responding to an alarm at a friend's pawn shop when he was shot in the head to death?

Answering any of these question expose the truth about how BLM is a scam, made to shame white people for the color of their skin and for their ancestor's actions. BLM also push down any and all black people back into the crab basket who dare to think for themselves. Because when black people stop thinking themselves as constant victims and take responsibility for their lives, then BLM lose power and they can't allow that.

the thing i see is all these BLM protests with large groups are primarily white people who have had nothing to do with anything about it
all they are doing is virtue signaling and it makes them look like pawns
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:02 am

Motto: "Individual freedom above all else."
Sammythekat wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:bomington, welcome to the board! :D

As for your claim that staying home and playing with Transformers is a PRIVILEGE, I disagree somewhat. Having Transformers means you either had the funds to purchase them, or someone gave them to you. Either way, they were purchased (well, they could have been stolen, but it still cost someone something) and for that you needed money, which had to come from somewhere. If you worked for it or someone else did and you got it as a gift, loan or subsidy, it was still earned. It has value. So when you exchange it for Transformers, it gives you the RIGHT to own those Transformers, and since now they are now your private property, you have the RIGHT to do with them as you wish.


you completely missed his point, mate-

he's saying that being able to stay home and avoid the situation is a privilege, not that owning toy robots is a privilege.
Yeah I figured it out a bit later. That's what I get for posting after a long workday. My bad bomington, I didn't mean to jump on you about it, my response was overkill.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Dr. Caelus » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:07 am

So,for all the people who would rather be talking about Transformers, how about that time Orion Pax came back to the precinct from patrol to find his fellow officers and a government stooge beating the hope out of a low SES activist they'd arrested after baiting the activist's friend into a fight? Or maybe that time that a riot broke out on a mining facility because a politician needed a photo-op and had his enforcers lay into the gathered crowd? Or maybe the empathic guy who becomes a hardcore SJW after watching his boss use politics to get rich? Or the conartist who ingratiates himself into a major political movement as an opportunity to escape his enemies and advance himself? Or about the orange asshat that starts a civil war by responding to class tensions with "law and order" and ominous weapons?

OR we could talk about the fact that a Decepticon police car literally has "punish" and "enslave" written across his knuckles? No social commentary there, I'm sure.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby JomasterII » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:10 am

Dr. Caelus wrote:So,for all the people who would rather be talking about Transformers, how about that time Orion Pax came back to the precinct from patrol to find his fellow officers and a government stooge beating the hope out of a low SES activist they'd arrested after baiting the activist's friend into a fight? Or maybe that time that a riot broke out on a mining facility because a politician needed a photo-op and had his enforcers lay into the gathered crowd? Or maybe the empathic guy who becomes a hardcore SJW after watching his boss use politics to get rich? Or the conartist who ingratiates himself into a major political movement as an opportunity to escape his enemies and advance himself? Or about the orange asshat that starts a civil war by responding to class tensions with "law and order" and ominous weapons?

OR we could talk about the fact that a Decepticon police car literally has "punish" and "enslave" written across his knuckles? No social commentary there, I'm sure.

...I just like it when the cool Nissan toy turns into a cool robot, man. ; ~ ;
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby hoymuna » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:23 am

To all the Transformers fans who support the BLM movement, every action you take toward acknowledging discriminatory practices and injustice is a positive one.
For those who insist that this (or any other platform) should be 'politics free' are kidding themselves.
Have you forgotten what this site is? You keep writing, "Its about Transformers, not politics." Let me ask these complacent snowflakes a question...... WHAT HAS TRANSFORMERS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT?
Going all the way back to G1 and literally every iteration since, Transformers as a franchise has always been about the struggle against injustice. G1 started with a less militarized faction (Autobots) forced from their resource depleted home by a very aggressive hegemony in the form of the Decepticons. Every form of media re-inforced this notion of a two-faction system with one side doing everything the could to escape blatant social injustice, eventually 'immigrating' to the Earth (specifically the US) and the relentless problems they hoped to escape following along to take even more that they felt entitled to. Need a better metaphor for America? Autobots, emerged hoping to establish rational and peaceful co-existence with the native humans, while Decepticons saw this world as a new goldmine of untapped resources to fuel their war machine. Am I lying? Pick a medium, the comics, the G1 episodes, and even the character card bios on the toyboxes point this out at every opportunity.
In short, the Transformers Franchise (fictionally) is a microcosm of American history. As a marketable brand, they could have been called, "Change-robots", "Flippy-bots", "Anthro-droids" or something else (clever or stupid), but Hasbro went with "TRANSFORMERS" which has many meanings. First, the obvious of physical change from one form to another. Second, was that at Transformer is an electrical term for changing electrical current. And the last meaning, is more subjective as the term TRANSFORMER represents an individual to find the motivation to change in way or another. The G1 even had some gray areas between the opposing viewpoints between the "good" Autobots, and "evil" Decepticons. Always sweet, kind, and just Bumblebee and Optimus Prime made the decision to literally kill the unique life form "Krimzeek" (and failed). Blitzwing had to compromise his dogma and assist Rodimus Prime and directly coming into conflict with convictions of his leader Galvatron on principles of right and wrong.
It was the latter's example that mirrors the BLM movement.
By crossing that "Blue Wall" of complacency, a representative of the corrupt, immoral, and hostile authority system-'Blitzwing' made a choice. The consequences for him would be dire, but his sacrifice to the truth he realized made him stand up to the brutal retribution of his tribe. This is what Black Lives Matter is about. Holding the system of injustice, brutality, and systemic racism (bi-factional tribalism) accountable to a single standard. Blitzwing TRANSFORMED. To suggest that there even is a neutral website or forum is naive. Don't forget that this is not that much of a child site either. This site is run, managed, and principally engaged with by ADULTS. ADULTS who, as children loved toys that TRANSFORM. The symbolism beyond that is up to the individual, but to not see the parallels between injustice in America, or Cyberton ('Seibertron?') is equally naive. YOU ARE INVOLVED. I AM INVOLVED. EVERYONE IN AMERICA IS INVOLVED. Autobot or Decepticon, Predacon or Maximal, Mini-con or Vehicon, Voxx or Quintesson, Republican or Democrat, . . . no matter what side your own, you have to see and recognize hate, racism, and injustice when it shows up. If you can't see it, then it is YOU WHO MUST TRANSFORM AND ROLL OUT.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby kirbenvost » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:25 am

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I used to be a regular here but rarely post anymore, mostly because I just don't have the time for internet communities these days. But I'm really glad to see a post about this here, thank you for making a statement Ryan. This was always my TF community of choice back in the day, and this proves why, the people and community which goes back to its founder. While there are a lot of people complaining about this post, I still feel the majority are standing up for what's right, and what's right is acknowledging that black lives matter, and each doing our part to address the injustices people are facing today. So many people have spoken much better words so I'll just quote a few excellent posts. Thank you guys.

Burn wrote:There's a few people in this thread who were already skating on thin ice and are at the point I could probably permanently ban them.

Some of you need to step back and stop forcing your opinion down the throats of others. Interestingly enough, it seems to be those opposed to BLM that are the most vocal.

Think about that for a second.

Black.Lives.Matter. Three words that are trying to highlight the inequality that black people suffer on a daily basis.

And all you can do is go on about how wrong it is, or how, like COVID-19, it's fake, or how it's just some bullshit whipped up by people who have nothing better to do.

What does that say about you? To me, it says you're a racist, or at the very least, a **** asshole who doesn't care about their fellow humans.

Ryan made this post to support BLM, because he sees the inequality, he sees the suffering. He made the thread to discuss BLM, but some how it's spun into crackpot conspiracy theories.

You've completely missed the point.

When BLM first started I was one of those who said "but all lives matter". I missed the point. But I read, I listened, and I learnt that the point of BLM isn't that only BLM, that no one has said other lives don't matter, that the idea of BLM was to highlight the inequalities and suffering that black people endure on a daily basis.

I am, for all intents and purposes, an outsider looking in. I'm not from America. I only see what the media lets me see or what I come across on Twitter.

But this problem isn't exclusive to America. Australia has a long history of abuse towards Indigenous Australians. From wholesale slaughter to children stealing (not the **** dingo either so don't bring that up), Indigenous Australians have had a rough go of it for the last 200+ years. Growing up, I went to school with Aboriginal kids, I went to school with Greek kids, with Italian kids, in high school Hmong and Indian kids, they were just kids like me.

But one group was treated differently, the Aboriginal kids. I remember going to school one day and running into one of the Aboriginal kids from my class. His head had been shaved because he had nits. While any other kid who got nits had them treated, but if you were Aboriginal, instant head shave. That bloke, who I should add was a great bloke, was always joking ... later went on to kill himself. I don't know why, but I look back and see how the school system was geared against him. Another Aboriginal kid who grew up around the corner from me, fantastic athelete, he too killed himself. As do a lot of young Aboriginal men, simply because the Australian Government just keeps throwing money at the problem without offering any concrete solution, because the way I see it, they don't care.

When Australia was first colonised, Aboriginals were regarded as sub-human, and that's something I believe the old rich white dudes who are currently make up the Australian Government still believe.

But as someone who grew up with them, they're people just like me.

Their lives don't mean more than mine (unless you catch me during one of my depressive days in which case I'll tell you they do) but they need help. Even though they share the same rights as me, even though they are entitled to the same things as me, the colour of their skin sees them treated less, they have to work harder to prove themselves.

And that's why, while all lives matter, we need to shine a light on black lives mattering as well, because it's high time we stopped treating them differently, as lesser human beings.

Put your conspiracy theories aside and see that.



Counterpunch wrote:Black lives matter. Full stop.

Policing in the United States needs reform.

There is a right and a wrong side of history to land on here. It isn't difficult.


High Command wrote:Some questions, which don't really need a response here but are worth asking yourselves and be as honest as you can about.


If all lives matter why does it offend some people when others say black lives matter?

Are black lives not lives too?

If all lives matter do you support universal healthcare?

If all lives matter do you oppose the death penalty?

Are there any contradictions here that need extra clarification or does all lives matter cover everyone?

Has the police responce to protests against police brutality calmed or enflamed tensions?

Has the president's responce calmed or enflamed tensoons?

What should the penalty be for murder?

What should the penalty be for using a forged $20 bill?

What should the penalty be for cops who murder?

Should the law apply the same to cops as it does citizens or differently?

Should the law apply the same to black people and white people?

Does it always?

Do black and white people receive the same sentences for the same crimes in the courts?

Were armed protesters against lockdown treated the same as unarmed protesters against police brutality?

Besides being armed what else was different about those protests?

What changes were achieved by previous peaceful protests?

What changes were achieved by previous non-peaceful protests?

Why did the cop who killed George Floyd not get arrested before there were protests?

Why did he get arrested after there were protests?

Was the American Revolution achieved by peaceful protest alone?

What brought slavery to an end in the United States?

Who got compensation when slavery ended, the slaves or slave owners?

Is property more important than lives?

Why are black people asking for equality not revenge?

Why don't they think they have equality now?

Is equality a bad thing?

Was the United States for or against fascism in world war 2?

Was fascism defeated peacefully or with violence in world war 2?

If you were a German in world war 2 what would you have done?

Are you for or against fascism now?

Has the KKK ever been recognised as a terrorist organisation?

Should they be?

How many people have the KKK killed?

How many people have antifa killed?

How many people have the police killed?

Who have you spoken out against more, antifa or the KKK?

Why does one bother you more than the other?

If terrorists use threats of violence to try and intimidate people into doing what they want, how does this differ from police methods?

If terrorists use threats of violence to try and intimidate people into doing what they want, how does this differ from Donald Trump's rhetoric?

How does the Chinese government refer to the Hong Kong protesters?

What percentage of mass shooters are white?

How many of them are called terrorists?

How many of them are called mentally ill?

Why did the woman in Central Park think she could threaten someone by saying that she'd call the cops, when she was in the wrong and on film?

Why did she change her tone when she made the call and point out that a black man was attacking her?

What did she think was going to be the likely outcome when the cops arrived?

Why did she think this?

Why do you know what she was thinking too?

Do you understand that thinking this shouldn't be normal?

Do you feel uncomfortable thinking about any of these questions?

Would your answers be any different if you had a different skin colour?

Would your answers be the same if you were reading them out loud to a room of people of the same skin colour as you?

Would they be the same if you were reading them out loud to a room of people of a different skin colour to you?

If they would be any different, why?

What do you think my skin colour is?

Would that matter?

Do you feel attacked by any of these questions?

If so, why?


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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby JomasterII » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:11 am

hoymuna wrote:Going all the way back to G1 and literally every iteration since, Transformers as a franchise has always been about the struggle against injustice.

Well Q-Transformers was about injokes, fan-appeal and really really bad video games...
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby AlexReynard » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:47 am

You can protest the senseless and evil murder of George Floyd without giving credence to Black Lives Matter.

As the indiscriminate, chaotic police brutality has shown us in the past week, race plays little part. It's whoever doesn't defer 100% to their godlike sense of authority. Or just whoever is in reach. I could go into statistics that show conclusively that police do not kill black people more often than white people (either in raw numbers or in percentage of interactions), but you can also just use your eyes. Beyond the protests, how many stories have we seen of police killing whites, homeless people, drug addicts, family dogs, etc.? How many times has a family called the police to help their child with mental illness or suicidal thoughts, only for the cops to gun them down in the driveway?

Black deaths are a fraction of a larger problem. Focusing only on that fraction distracts from underlying systemic causes. The system is a meat grinder. I'm sure some cops are racist. I'm also sure that you are going to see brutality coming from undertrained, overworked, prosecution-immune, disposable grunts- who are trained to hide behind military-grade hardware whenever they're scared- whether they're racist or not.

Add to this how criminal cops are transferred around to other precincts, to keep them in the family, because "He's one of us". Just like the Catholic church did with child rapists. Look to the leadership. Or else nothing will change no matter how many dirty cops are arrested.

I'm glad to see some are. You want to honor George Floyd? Black Lives Matter is not the way. They're noise without action. How about drawing attention to Justin Amash and Ayanna Pressley's attempts to end qualified immunity?
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby AlexReynard » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:46 am

High Command wrote:Some questions, which don't really need a response here but are worth asking yourselves and be as honest as you can about.


Okay.

>If all lives matter why does it offend some people when others say black lives matter?

Because it implies that we think they don't, and we need to be taught this, even when the vast majority already agree.

>Are black lives not lives too?

Of course they are.

>If all lives matter do you support universal healthcare?

Absolutely.

>If all lives matter do you oppose the death penalty?

I think some people may deserve to be put down like a rabid animal, but that our government has not shown it can be trusted with power to fairly decide life and death.

>Are there any contradictions here that need extra clarification or does all lives matter cover everyone?

Near as I can tell, yeah.

>Has the police responce to protests against police brutality calmed or enflamed tensions?

Inflamed. In fact, it's bizarre how much it seems like they don't realize, they're most likely being filmed when they push and kick and gas unresisting people.

>Has the president's responce calmed or enflamed tensoons?

Likely neither. He's a useless mouth on legs that rarely takes decicive action if he can avoid it.

>What should the penalty be for murder?

Punitive justice doesn't work. Scanadanavian-style rehabilitation is not emotionally-satisfying to our public desire for revenge, but their recidivism rates speak for themselves.

>What should the penalty be for using a forged $20 bill?

Kicked out of the store (figuratively) and told not to come back.

>What should the penalty be for cops who murder?

Twice whatever we decide is fair for citizens.

>Should the law apply the same to cops as it does citizens or differently?

Absolutely not the same. They have to be held to a higher standard.

>Should the law apply the same to black people and white people?

It already does. Our grandparents fought a hard battle to accomplish that.

>Does it always?

Unequal application of written law is not the same as inequality written into the law.

>Do black and white people receive the same sentences for the same crimes in the courts?

IIRC, a study showed black men get the longest sentences, comparatively, white men and black women are close to the same numbers, and white women shortest of all.

>Were armed protesters against lockdown treated the same as unarmed protesters against police brutality?

The anti-lockdown LARPers did not use their weapons. Many protesters were and have been armed, but when they are, they're called rioters instead, because the news wants us to think in simplistic Good Guy/Bad Guy narratives.

>Besides being armed what else was different about those protests?

The George Floyd protesters are associated with the left, so they have been supported by left-leaning media. The lockdown protesters were associated with the right, so they were smeared and stereotyped by left-leaning media. (I say this as a liberal myself, who has felt absolute disgust at the double standard, and lack of empathy shown to people who, for the most part, were protesting being forced out of work and expected to live indefinitely on a paltry $1200).

>What changes were achieved by previous peaceful protests?

Not much, besides a few dirty cops getting charged as appeasement.

>What changes were achieved by previous non-peaceful protests?

Not much, besides a few dirty cops getting charged as appeasement.

>Why did the cop who killed George Floyd not get arrested before there were protests?

Maybe because the protests happened almost immediately, and sometimes the prosecutor's office wants to take their time on pressing charges to make sure they stick?

>Why did he get arrested after there were protests?

See previous answer.

>Was the American Revolution achieved by peaceful protest alone?

No.

>What brought slavery to an end in the United States?

Seven hundred and fifty thousand dead Americans. Let's hope it will be less this time.

>Who got compensation when slavery ended, the slaves or slave owners?

Considering the non-existent "40 acres and a mule", I'm going to guess the slave owners.

>Is property more important than lives?

Depends. War should not be fought for corporate profit. But if someone breaks into my house, I will defend what I own with anything I can get my hands on.

>Why are black people asking for equality not revenge?

Why are you pretending that they aren't asking for revenge? I've seen plenty of posts and Tweets calling for people to begin shooting the cops to death. One post suggested we buy drones, equip them with micro-explosives, and program them to recognize police uniforms.

>Why don't they think they have equality now?

Because they are constantly told that they don't by pandering politicians who want their votes, and who benefit from the black community's problems never actually going away.

>Is equality a bad thing?

Of opportunity, no. Of outcome, yes.

>Was the United States for or against fascism in world war 2?

Most of us were, aside from people like Henry Ford and Prescott Bush.

>Was fascism defeated peacefully or with violence in world war 2?

It was defeated with eighty-five million dead human beings. Let's hope it will take less this time.

>If you were a German in world war 2 what would you have done?

Considering that I am, by nature, individualistic, contrary, physically weak, and lazy, I would likely have stayed in my house and tried to wait everything out.

>Are you for or against fascism now?

I am against fascism in all forms, even when it claims to be the opposite.

>Has the KKK ever been recognised as a terrorist organisation?

I think that term was not in use by the time they'd become a pale, empty, useless shell of an organization.

>Should they be?

Why bother? We already defeated them.

>How many people have the KKK killed?

Several thousand, I'd guess of the top of my head. In recent years, not so many.

>How many people have antifa killed?

Hard to say, but a dozen or so. Connor Betts killed nine.

>How many people have the police killed?

Since when, and are we going to count justified use of force in defense of others?

>Who have you spoken out against more, antifa or the KKK?

Antifa.

>Why does one bother you more than the other?

Because the KKK were driven into the dirt and made a worthless laughingstock before I was born, and Antifa is active now, assaulting anyone they perceive as their enemy.

>If terrorists use threats of violence to try and intimidate people into doing what they want, how does this differ from police methods?

Because police are ideally meant to be held to a code of conduct.

>If terrorists use threats of violence to try and intimidate people into doing what they want, how does this differ from Donald Trump's rhetoric?

Because terrorists will sometimes act on the stuff that comes out of their mouths, instead of near-constant bluffing.

>How does the Chinese government refer to the Hong Kong protesters?

I don't know specifically, but probably something terrible.

>What percentage of mass shooters are white?

64%. Which is less than the 76% of Americans that are white.

>How many of them are called terrorists?

Timothy McVeigh. Still, this is kind of a malformed question, because mass shooters typically do not organize into chapters with flags and marches.

>How many of them are called mentally ill?

Most of them, which is appropriate.

>Why did the woman in Central Park think she could threaten someone by saying that she'd call the cops, when she was in the wrong and on film?

Because, for whatever reason, there is a deep streak of 'Karenism' in America currently, where entitled grownup brats think they can tattletale their way out of responsibility for anything they do.

>Why did she change her tone when she made the call and point out that a black man was attacking her?

I haven't seen the video, but probably to seem like a victim.

>What did she think was going to be the likely outcome when the cops arrived?

That she would get to smugly grin as he was taken away.

>Why did she think this?

Probably because her parents never taught her that you can't always get what you want by throwing a tantrum.

>Why do you know what she was thinking too?

Because we've seen lots and lots of similar incidents that also display a lack of maturity and self-awareness?

>Do you understand that thinking this shouldn't be normal?

Sure it's normal. For toddlers.

>Do you feel uncomfortable thinking about any of these questions?

No. It was actually a good mental exercise.

>Would your answers be any different if you had a different skin colour?

Considering that I never really thought much about race until I started listening to black viewpoints, I would hope not.

>Would your answers be the same if you were reading them out loud to a room of people of the same skin colour as you?

I would hope not. I do not want to virtue-signal.

>Would they be the same if you were reading them out loud to a room of people of a different skin colour to you?

I would hope not. I do not want to assume that objective knowledge depends on group identity.

>If they would be any different, why?

My voice might waver a bit, I admit. But I've argued before to people's faces that lived anecdotes are not the same as nationwide statistical data. And I hope I'd have the courage to again.

>What do you think my skin colour is?

Metal.

>Would that matter?

Not unless you're a Decepticon.

>Do you feel attacked by any of these questions?

No. But I think a handful were structured to produce the answer you want, and I don't play that game.

>If so, why?

Because Stone Cold said so, that's why.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby macsumner » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:48 am

Solipsist wrote:I had hoped this site would keep politics out of its forums and boards. BLM is at best the black answer to the KKK and with The President announcing that BOTH ANTIFA AND BLM will soon be designated as "Known Terrorist Organizations", I find every person and group, company, etc stating some sort of "Virtue Signalling" and lame support and best wishes type of rhetoric to be part of the problem. The KKK was created by Dixiecrats and now BLM has also been created by Dixiecrats, even if they don't call themselves that anymore! Dems openly support Terrorists and if you support them as well then you are part of the problem for not being educated enough to see the parallels between what the old Dems did and what the contemporary Dems have done. WHY CAN WE NOT KEEP POLITICS OFF AN ENTERTAINMENT WEBSITE??? I feel betrayed and disgusted by the moderators who would inject this slimy topic into a board about something comforting I have had since I was a kid. This is NOT the place for Social Experimentation and attempted Brainwashing of the vulnerable masses who do not understand what Stockholm Syndrome even is! If you lock me out, FINE! BUT I had to tell you first that you suck for bringing politics into this otherwise somber forum! I pray for your misguided souls that you wake up!
Unless you wish to be known as terrorist sympathizers?!?


Comparing BLM to the KKK? Seriously dude, get a grip of your insecure, closeted racist ass. BLM is an alliance of blacks, whites and other good people who recognise a massive problem that is affecting very real lives. The KKK are an organised group who believes in death and harassment for non-white races (Jews can be white, too! And if you're gay, don't expect a membership card anytime soon). BLM (and other fights for equality) is not about taking anything away from white people other than a misconceived sense of smug superiority.

I applaud this post and am pleased to be a part of this community.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby macsumner » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:04 am

Coptur wrote:BLM is nothing more than a left wing power movement.


Dismissing the movement as such exposes your own racism and failure to recognise a problem that exists beyond your own comfortable bubble. Clearly you're feeling insecure being in a minority. Call that an education and an opportunity to grow as you read some of the insights of some of the other posters here sharing their experiences.

We can all be good people by looking out for other people like us, but we can be better people for also standing up for people who are different and don't have things as easy.
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Re: Black lives matter. 'Til all are one!

Postby Dr. Caelus » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:14 am

A couple of other thoughts from the franchise:

"Peace through tyranny." Megatron, G1

Image

"I now know the true meaning of oppression... and have thus lost my taste for inflicting it." - Megatron, Transformers: Prime.

Image

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." - Optimus Prime, G1

Image

(This was one of the officers I went to when I ran into the creepy lurkers at our local protest.)
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