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everybody gets offended at something, some people look for things to get offended by. hell some people get PAID to look for things to be offended by. I remember back in the city I used to live in, this classy resteraunt put up a water fountain with a lady poseing in its center right in the middle of their front garden. this lady was not anatomically correct. but people started demanding that the offensive nekad lady be removed immediatly. somedoy even went late at night and superglues a bikini onto it. In the end the resteraunt closed down. Our culture seems to want to find things to complain about, so we have something to pass the buck onto, or to get bucks from by way of law suit.

sad but true

hellkitty wrote:I think it's time I work my usual thread-killing magic. (No, I have no power, I'm just obnoxious).

I'm just a wee bit tired of people thinking that because they're 'offended' by something, that they must be immediately grovelled to. I see people (not here, but you know, in the real life with the great orange ball in the sky) who use the phrase 'I'm offended by that' as some sort of negotiating hammer.

I had a student who went to the Dean because a text I had the class read he found 'offensive'. It was _All Quiet on the Western Front_. He used his 'offended-ness' to demand an automatic A in the class. Yeah, that didn't work out so well for him.

Being offended never killed anyone. There are real problems and there is real bigotry in the world, but trying to pick this gold-tooth battle to fight the war on stereotypes is...completely ridiculous. Fight where the victory would actually count, maybe?

And honestly, I'd have a bit more respect for the writers if they had a backbone. If it's all Bay, stand up for yourselves; if it was partly you, take the frickin' credit, good *or* bad. This halvsie-walvsie stuff is pathetic.

::HIGH F'N FIVE::

hellkitty wrote:HK, never mind testicles, do men have *spines* anymore?

Let's ask Skids and Mudflap...'Yo, guys...whatcha think?'

Skids and Mudflap wrote:Hell no, because they're pussies.

'Thanks guys!'

I'm offended by people that were offended by this crap.

MagnusPrime72 wrote:Hi everyone.....longtime viewer...first time post.

Here's what I was offended by.....

1.) After Prime takes down Demolisher in Shaghai, he kills him. SINCE WHEN IS OPTIMUS PRIME JUDGE, JURY AND EXECUTIONER!!!! The Optimus Prime I remember was a fierce warrior, but also a kind and compassionate bot. He would NEVER kill anything that couldn't defend itself, even Megatron. I compare Optimus Prime to a Lawful Good Paladin from the DnD RPG. It may have been Peter Cullen's voice, but that was NOT Optimus Prime.

2.) They show the above and then proceed to kill him off for most of the movie....are you kidding me!!!! It's bad enough he wasn't the Prime I remember, but he's the face of the frachise and he's gone for most of the movie. As Vizzini from the Princess Bride would say..."Inconceivable"!!!!

3.) Skids and Mudflap taking on Devastator by themselves...and hold their ground against him!!!!!! WTF!!!! Devastator is one of the most memorable (and powerful) villians in Transformers history. Even the Dinobots couldn't take him down but those two little schmucks gave him a run for his money and then he gets taken down by one shot of a rail gun.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I can go on about what was offensive in that movie, but I digress. Frankly, the only thing I DIDN'T find offensive were Skids and Mudflap. I didn't like them but I didn't think they were offensive either. I came into this movie with an open mind and was disappointed. I know this isn't G1, I understand that, but Mr. Bay, please don't pollute my fondest memory of a noble character like Optimus Prime with a deviant doppleganger. That is what truly grinds my gears...haha...Gears.

1. I had no problem Prime being the Punisher when they had a Decipticon relentlessly run over several innocent human beings running away for their lives.

2. There are several iconic characters in the Transformer franchise.. Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream, Constructicons. All in all its no big deal. The movie reminded me of a similar episode, "Roll Out" from Season 1.

3. I dont recall Devastator being the most powerful robot considering how always got bean in the TV series some how. And take into consideration taht every new gestalt that was introduced ended being more powerful than the older one. Predaking anyone?

Hmm.

I would have thought that the look and actions of the robots would have been derived in part from the personality and characteristics of the characters written. So I dont know why they say that they didnt approve of the gold tooth.

To be honest I wasnt offended by the twins, I just saw them as the comedy double act that they were probably intended to be but then I wasnt activly looking for any stereo types.

Im not really sure what it is that people object to about these two and I wonder if some people are always on the look out for anything that they can claim is offensive or racist. Still, it seems to have touched a nerve with some people and they have the right to voice their issues.

Ravage XK wrote:I would have thought that the look and actions of the robots would have been derived in part from the personality and characteristics of the characters written. So I dont know why they say that they didnt approve of the gold tooth.

It's a simple deflection. They've seen the "outrage" from people over the characters so rather than apologising themselves for the way they characterised the twins, they simply pass the buck to Bay (who people find easy to hate) with a piss poor "oh we didn't do the gold tooth thing, blame Bay for that!" and *BOOM* off the haters go, because let's face it, when you're riled up, you're not going to stop and say "hey hang on, I was offended by more than just the gold tooth, I was offended by the entire character and that's what you two guys did!"

I really have lost respect for these two because of this response.

Cryo Prime wrote:good lord, why is this such a big issue. i found Skids and Mudflad funny as hell. i don't remember this much controversy over Jazz when he was labeled a "black transformer" and then was killed off. man people need to grow up. i have many black friends and they all didnt have a problem. and from what i understand its a group of white people who are offended? correct me if im wrong.

well if its a group of white people
then maybe they thought that it was making fun of there white trash way of life, that's what i thought when i saw mudflap and skids, is a couple of white trash yokels not black people. but anyway who cares can't please everyone in the world and i certainly don't think Bay cares either.

MagnusPrime72 wrote:Hi everyone.....longtime viewer...first time post.

Here's what I was offended by.....

1.) After Prime takes down Demolisher in Shaghai, he kills him. SINCE WHEN IS OPTIMUS PRIME JUDGE, JURY AND EXECUTIONER!!!! The Optimus Prime I remember was a fierce warrior, but also a kind and compassionate bot. He would NEVER kill anything that couldn't defend itself, even Megatron. I compare Optimus Prime to a Lawful Good Paladin from the DnD RPG. It may have been Peter Cullen's voice, but that was NOT Optimus Prime.

2.) They show the above and then proceed to kill him off for most of the movie....are you kidding me!!!! It's bad enough he wasn't the Prime I remember, but he's the face of the frachise and he's gone for most of the movie. As Vizzini from the Princess Bride would say..."Inconceivable"!!!!

3.) Skids and Mudflap taking on Devastator by themselves...and hold their ground against him!!!!!! WTF!!!! Devastator is one of the most memorable (and powerful) villians in Transformers history. Even the Dinobots couldn't take him down but those two little schmucks gave him a run for his money and then he gets taken down by one shot of a rail gun.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I can go on about what was offensive in that movie, but I digress. Frankly, the only thing I DIDN'T find offensive were Skids and Mudflap. I didn't like them but I didn't think they were offensive either. I came into this movie with an open mind and was disappointed. I know this isn't G1, I understand that, but Mr. Bay, please don't pollute my fondest memory of a noble character like Optimus Prime with a deviant doppleganger. That is what truly grinds my gears...haha...Gears.

Great post, I totally agree!
I wasn't offended by the twins, I thought they were going to be really silly characters but they came out okay. I didn't notice the racist stuff till I've started reading about it on forums. Which was kind of a mistake.

I think the biggest issues were Prime's personality and making Devastator look like some kind of easy kill drone. And I hated that Wheelie part, there were way to many "silly" transformers there. I mean, c'mon the humans had enough "humor" for two movies. I think Bay tries to put a lot of stuff in the film, a little ghetto humor scene, some Indiana Jones, some university teen movie stuff, even some LOTR type of stuff, HELL even some Star Trek lets blow up a planet stuff!
Though I don't think the writers have that much say in it anyway. I think Bay is going to try and put Borat or Brüno stuff in the third movie. Bay needs to calm down, make a Transformers movie and then start working on his Bad Boys III, don't mix stuff.

why must the "pollitically correct" try and ruin evrything,,,, for everyone. theres probably about 6 people in a room intentionally looking for things to whine about and i bet that they are all 30 plus white people (4 of them women) deciding what would offend other races to give themselves a sense of superiority.

I didn't find anything racially offensive (although I could see how some people could), but I can't shake the disappointing feeling that I wanted this movie to be darker and more serious than the last and instead just got Devastator with balls, foul mouthed twins, and dogs screwing. I like a good comedy like the next guy out there but I hated how they tried to out do every comedy element from the last movie by simply doing it x2 or x3 in this film.

In the end, I prefer action movies like ROTF to contain subtle humor elements and situations instead of crude, blatent humor and slapstick. It just doesn't need it and IMO, really took away from the important elements of the film.

Just my 2 cents for what that's worth...

Skids and Mudflap are the classic posers that are trying too hard.

We have seen this lampooned in TV, movies and commercials for the last decade.

In movies we have Jamie Kennedy and his Malibu's Most Wanted character and his friends. Ali G and his pals from "Ali G in da House" is another good example along the movie White Boyz with Danny Hoch.

From TV you have "White Mike" from the Wayans Brothers show.

The perferct embodiment of Skids and Mudflap are the T-Mobile Posers commercials

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7WT8wgS4gg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyHfF5CzXN4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zozyFPWEZqg

As an African-American man I found it ironic and very telling that even with the "poser" being a well established part of the culture today many people saw Skids and Mudflap and immediately thought "black."

This isnt a case of Scatman Crothers voicing Jazz or the black hamster from G-Force really being a hamster version of comedian Tracy Morgan. I was more offended by Jazz's "what's crackin' little bitches" line and B-Boy stance from the first movie. Given the character and its history with Scatman Crothers it looked like a writer who didnt know anything about black people or how we use slang.

The enormous amount of white liberal guilt being hurled at ROTF says more about the people than any characters in it.

PS. I completely forgot the 2 biggest over-the-top posers on TV today in Ed Wuncler III and Gin Rummy from the Boondocks.

personally i was more "offended" (I use this term losely) by the first movies reluctance to show that our favourite 'bots in disguise even had personalities-to the degree that bee was silenced so we good all go "awwwwww" at the "boy-and-his-'bot relationship.

I was also "offended" by the fact that prime figured it was ok to loose jazz just cuz he had found some new human friends^^

what i liked most about this one was that everyone seemed to have more character. Starscream and megs seemed to Have that old spark of a twisted relationship, the twins blended in nicely as just two more characters to the movie, not "oh, look, some humans and robots are working together!", jetfire was english??(or was he meant to be a scurvy pirate??...eek i think i just offended black beard--)

i'm also "offended" that my boss just called and interupted my flow...

I'll admit, the bad language for me was a bit of a factor-seemed a bit too un-needed. Tfs that threaten too jam things up each others ass?hmmm...(in the movie as a whole, not just these two)maybe i'm gettin too old when i say shouldnt transformers be good clean fun? but like my sister says, it's not anything they don't see in school.

My point with the twins is this--I was overjoyed to finally see the movie verse acknowledged that these robots have (and should have) personality. whether I like those personalities is irrelevent. And the gold tooth? Not something i would've remembered had the "offended" not pointed it out.

I was also "offended" that a cool concept like the pretenders just became a re-run of a scene from terminator 3.

Screw "the fallen", I shall now now become "the offended"

I can see the Ebert thread dying suddenly and this one picking up the conversation.

hinomars19 wrote: jetfire was english??(or was he meant to be a scurvy pirate??...eek i think i just offended black beard--)

Oh no, you just offended all us English people who read this thread, Jetfire was Scottish!! You probably managed to offend the Scottish readers too come to think of it!!

Ravage XK wrote:

hinomars19 wrote: jetfire was english??(or was he meant to be a scurvy pirate??...eek i think i just offended black beard--)

Oh no, you just offended all us English people who read this thread, Jetfire was Scottish!! You probably managed to offend the Scottish readers too come to think of it!!

but I am English...

scottish, eh. now you say it, of course

hinomars19 wrote:

Ravage XK wrote:

hinomars19 wrote: jetfire was english??(or was he meant to be a scurvy pirate??...eek i think i just offended black beard--)

Oh no, you just offended all us English people who read this thread, Jetfire was Scottish!! You probably managed to offend the Scottish readers too come to think of it!!

but I am English...

scottish, eh. now you say it, of course

He he, I hope my pointing that out didnt offend you. Seems its easy to offend people these days.

Ravage XK wrote:

hinomars19 wrote:

Ravage XK wrote:

hinomars19 wrote: jetfire was english??(or was he meant to be a scurvy pirate??...eek i think i just offended black beard--)

Oh no, you just offended all us English people who read this thread, Jetfire was Scottish!! You probably managed to offend the Scottish readers too come to think of it!!

but I am English...

scottish, eh. now you say it, of course

He he, I hope my pointing that out didnt offend you. Seems its easy to offend people these days.

hell no...thanks for telling, it reallty was bugging me what he was, i couldn't figure it out

and yes, it is too easy to offend folk nowadays, but i think most of the time most of the blame rests with those who take offense

syphonn wrote:

Kurtzman: We feel really fortunate, and we’ve worked hard to make our directors feel like it’s a collaboration. Certainly, when you go into making a movie with Michael you know that Michael is a very particular kind of guy that wants to make a very particular kind of movie. When you try to push him out of that, it tends not to work. So I think the best thing we can do is to color between the lines. Once you accept that, the freedom is that you can throw out any and all suggestions within those parameters. So once you accept that you have parameters – which so many people see as not freeing, we tend to see – now we know the rules. Let’s play by rules, learn to break them when necessary, stick to them when necessary. I think we just kind of enjoy it. It’s nice to know what your mission is, and it’s nice to that you have one, because sometimes too much freedom can be a block.

Coloring between the lines, I think this right here is pretty much them saying they had a very limited scope within which to work set by MB

Outside of Orci and Kurtz breaching their contract and loosing their nest eggs, we’re not gonna get much more than this so it’s vital to use the context clues (If you care obviously) to figure things out…If people still can’t tell after reading the passage you’ve highlighted, then obviously you don’t care much…I mean they lay it right on a platter, but morso if you know anything about Bay this is right in line with how he bullies writers in almost all of his movies (Conversely though I won’t feel complete sorrow as Team Kurtci got 8 million to deal with Bay which I’m sure cushions their blow, zips their lips a bit)…People will still get all pious and ask them to say more when they just said what you needed to hear, but once the hype completely dies down and if they subsequently turn down a TF3 (which appears more than likely based on their own words), maybe will get an unequivocal diss of Bay much like many writers and actors (who have worked with him) have done to him in the past…

We shall see…

You know what was offensive about ROTF?
Scalpel was!
He was obviously a German stereotype with that German accent all those monocles and that murderous personality of his.
THAT is racist, as if all Germans where NAZI scientists. And they tried to hide it by disguising it as a tiny gray alien robot from outer space.

I will sue Bay, Kurtzman, Orci, Spielberg, Paramount, ILM, Dreamworks and Hasbro!

Oh yea now I have hardly any respect for them any more blaming Bay for the script entirely?

I mean I think people that get offended by a movie about alien robots are ridicules and offensive to the entire human race but I just dislike people without a backbone even more.

I don't sympathize with wussies...that's why our country is so wussified now. I can't stand anyone who gets offended by movies, when there's so much more offensiveness in real life. I don't think I have to list any of those offenses here.

For the record, I loved Skids and Mudflap and I hope they come back for the next movie with new gold rims and fuzzy dice in the mirror.

I hated Skids and Mudflap. With a passion. Was I offended by them? Hell no. I've been more offended by what certain family members have said about me.

As far as the script goes, what Kurtzman & Orci said remind me of what Kevin Smith said when he was hired to write a Superman script. That one of the producers was dead set on having a giant spider in the movie. It just shows that as a writer, even if you think something is stupid and doesn't belong in the movie, it can end up in the movie anyway.

I had absolutely no problem with the Twins in any way shape and form. They were comic relief. The only 2 small issues I had with RoTF was Wheelie humping Megan's leg, and Devastator's wrecking balls. 2 things the movie could have done without.

I do have one major issue with the movie, because of which as a Transfan I was offended. The overall script. It sucked. And for that, Orci and Kurtzman are to blame. Bay might have made small changes and was in charge of the action, but the material on the pages is Orci and Kurtzman's fault. I would much rather waited 1 more year for a damn good movie than get it this summer and have what we got.

Ravage XK wrote:

hinomars19 wrote:

Ravage XK wrote:

hinomars19 wrote: jetfire was english??(or was he meant to be a scurvy pirate??...eek i think i just offended black beard--)

Oh no, you just offended all us English people who read this thread, Jetfire was Scottish!! You probably managed to offend the Scottish readers too come to think of it!!

but I am English...

scottish, eh. now you say it, of course

He he, I hope my pointing that out didnt offend you. Seems its easy to offend people these days.

Technically, I think Jetfire's accent was bad Pirates of the Caribbean. But I don't think it's a good idea to offend pirates, so I'm going to say it's Welsh.

HK, half Welsh. So now *I* can be offended too! DM, cut me in on your lawsuit!

hellkitty wrote:HK, half Welsh. So now *I* can be offended too! DM, cut me in on your lawsuit!

No worries, I've sued each of them for 10 Million dollars for each word Scalpel said in the movie!

hellkitty wrote:I had a student who went to the Dean because a text I had the class read he found 'offensive'. It was _All Quiet on the Western Front_. He used his 'offended-ness' to demand an automatic A in the class. Yeah, that didn't work out so well for him.

Heh, sucks to be him.

hellkitty wrote:Being offended never killed anyone. There are real problems and there is real bigotry in the world, but trying to pick this gold-tooth battle to fight the war on stereotypes is...completely ridiculous. Fight where the victory would actually count, maybe?

And honestly, I'd have a bit more respect for the writers if they had a backbone. If it's all Bay, stand up for yourselves; if it was partly you, take the frickin' credit, good *or* bad. This halvsie-walvsie stuff is pathetic.

Nice one. I myself can't stand all this whininess and grovelling. At the most I found the twins irritating at a few points (Skids acting like a ninja? What?) but they were overall okay, and I hardly even noticed any twangs of racism! Like Bay, it was all just good fun to me (and the audience I was with).

MagnusPrime72 wrote:Hi everyone.....longtime viewer...first time post.

Here's what I was offended by.....

1.) After Prime takes down Demolisher in Shaghai, he kills him. SINCE WHEN IS OPTIMUS PRIME JUDGE, JURY AND EXECUTIONER!!!! The Optimus Prime I remember was a fierce warrior, but also a kind and compassionate bot. He would NEVER kill anything that couldn't defend itself, even Megatron. I compare Optimus Prime to a Lawful Good Paladin from the DnD RPG. It may have been Peter Cullen's voice, but that was NOT Optimus Prime.

The way I see it, his heart's hardened where the 'cons are mentioned. Most of the Decepticons in the movieverse are this time portrayed as destructive, ruthless, sadistic and genuinely savage monstrosities as well (Remember the KILL ZE LEETLE ONE moment?) making the G1 cartoon's roster of baddies feel more like schoolyard bullies. That said, I consider it okay for Prime to be ruthless to them in turn. What's important is that he can still be a compassionate leader, where he kept risking his spark to save countless lives where the Decepticons would crush them.

MagnusPrime72 wrote:2.) They show the above and then proceed to kill him off for most of the movie....are you kidding me!!!! It's bad enough he wasn't the Prime I remember, but he's the face of the frachise and he's gone for most of the movie. As Vizzini from the Princess Bride would say..."Inconceivable"!!!!

Prime the face of the franchise? I thought that was Bumblebee. Anyways most continuities he's been in has him killed and resurrected in one way or the other. I was shocked at first when I realized he had died but I got over it quickly.

MagnusPrime72 wrote:3.) Skids and Mudflap taking on Devastator by themselves...and hold their ground against him!!!!!! WTF!!!! Devastator is one of the most memorable (and powerful) villians in Transformers history. Even the Dinobots couldn't take him down but those two little schmucks gave him a run for his money and then he gets taken down by one shot of a rail gun.

Yeah... That's true(but the Dinobots do manage to fight him to a standstill). The way I see it, they were like fleas to him and being small gave them much maneuverability across his massive body while he can only use one hand to swat at them, I mainly don't like the way bits of his body got blown off so easily from the Twins' firepower. Oh, and wrecking balls of steel. Can't get any manlier than that. (My older brother keeps asking me where the second ball came from and I have no idea on how to answer that one!)