UN-20 Rumble & Frenzy Gallery

I guess us RIBFIR folks are going to have to deal, huh. lol. It would have been amusing had Tak released RIRFIB, and Hasbro RIBFIR. Keep the debate going! Heh.

As for the figures, not sure I like that light blue. Blends in a bit too well here.

at least Takara got it right.

Okay... Soo, HasRumble is blue and TakRumble is red. Those demented bastards.

I'm a RIRFIB guy, myself, so I'm a little jealous.

Also, does this mean that we AREN'T getting the two-pack? 'Cos I was kinda banking on that...

Sweet

So do these MFs combine or not? I'm fine with them not as there's really no real lore of them doing so that I'm aware of, but they were initially rumored to.

DecepticonFinishline wrote:Okay... Soo, HasRumble is blue and TakRumble is red. Those demented bastards.

I'm a RIRFIB guy, myself, so I'm a little jealous.

Also, does this mean that we AREN'T getting the two-pack? 'Cos I was kinda banking on that...

The US is not getting them in a 2-apck. Both are single packed and one will come in one wave assortment, the other in another. Which should make them ab absolute pain, if not impossible, to find.

Kibble wrote:So do these MFs combine or not? I'm fine with them not as there's really no real lore of them doing so that I'm aware of, but they were initially rumored to.

I'm very underwhelmed here, as well. I too remember something about them combining into a larger tank, which is why the TakaraTomy 2-Pack was to be a higher price point than normal.

Now, all I see is a set of the same figure in different colors. At least in Animated, the Jet twins were not only different colors, but slightly remolded, and actually combined.

These are straight up repaints and that's it.

I'm wondering if I should go for Perfect Effect's Frenzy & Rumble now.

EDIT: Nevermind, they cost more than the TakaraTomy set. Geez.

Autobot032 wrote:
Now, all I see is a set of the same figure in different colors. At least in Animated, the Jet twins were not only different colors, but slightly remolded, and actually combined.

These are straight up repaints and that's it.

Really if there are any figures that have a license to be repaints of each other it's these guys.

I'll certainly do my best to get them but it's more down to completionism than excitement.

I wish they gave Frenzy some drills instead of piledrivers like in the comics.

This is so rad!

DecepticonFinishline wrote:Okay... Soo, HasRumble is blue and TakRumble is red. Those demented bastards.

Thank goodness.

G1 Rumble was red.

Alternators Rumble was red.

Robot Heroes Rumble was red.

The only toy release of Rumble that has ever been blue is the recent RTS one.

What was Hasbro thinking?

While there's no way in hell these guys will fit into WFC Soundwave's chest, they DO look decently scaled while being posed with Music Label Soundwave, which is roughly the same size as his WFC counterpart.

Definite must-buy.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:While there's no way in hell these guys will fit into WFC Soundwave's chest, they DO look decently scaled while being posed with Music Label Soundwave, which is roughly the same size as his WFC counterpart.

Definite must-buy.

Frenzy and Rumble were supposed to be slightly taller than human size so if they were to be in scale with a deluxe Soundwave, they should be somewhere around his knees.

Nujevad wrote:

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:While there's no way in hell these guys will fit into WFC Soundwave's chest, they DO look decently scaled while being posed with Music Label Soundwave, which is roughly the same size as his WFC counterpart.

Definite must-buy.

Frenzy and Rumble were supposed to be slightly taller than human size so if they were to be in scale with a deluxe Soundwave, they should be somewhere around his knees.

All arguments about G1 and scale are utterly pointless!

Well i thought i would really like these guys, which i do and yes Takara got it right, but DAMN! i hate the kibble on the back, the half of tank tracks is pretty bad i think. Still think the best overall is PE Rumble/Frenzy set.

So I will be getting the United version. These two are great and I would much rather purchase a two pack and secure them both at the same time. There is nothing more sad than a Rumble with no Frenzy.

Autobot032 wrote:
I'm wondering if I should go for Perfect Effect's Frenzy & Rumble now.

EDIT: Nevermind, they cost more than the TakaraTomy set. Geez.

You do realize that those 2 are just straight up repaints as well, right?

Am I really the only one that thinks these are ugly as sin? Are we not sick of tanks yet? Would these not have made better Legends figures for half the price?

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE!!

I would much rather spend the money on the PE set.

Rumble is Red, Except when he's not
Frenzy is Red, Except when he's not

Whichever you believe, these figures are great! I can't wait to own them.

Choose the 3rd party over the original? No contest! Great bot mode but I'd rather that they weren't tanks.

Well… they might be sold as a two-pack as an exclusive at Target or Wal-Mart, Still they do look great! But I can wait until the Christmas sales,

fenrir72 wrote:Choose the 3rd party over the original? No contest! Great bot mode but I'd rather that they weren't tanks.

I like that they're tanks. And I like that they have the optional pile drivers, but... The arms are just too.... They're too much. They seem wayyyyy out of proportion with the rest of the bot mode. I'll still get it no matter what. Then they can make that head remold of Scourge into Ratbat, grab my Overkill and my Ravage and put them all together. And then just hope for a Slugfest. Laser and Buzz if there's any way to pull that off.

DecepticonFinishline wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Choose the 3rd party over the original? No contest! Great bot mode but I'd rather that they weren't tanks.

I like that they're tanks. And I like that they have the optional pile drivers, but... The arms are just too.... They're too much. They seem wayyyyy out of proportion with the rest of the bot mode. I'll still get it no matter what. Then they can make that head remold of Scourge into Ratbat, grab my Overkill and my Ravage and put them all together. And then just hope for a Slugfest. Laser and Buzz if there's any way to pull that off.

For Laserbeak there's the Real Gear MP3 player whose name I forget.

Diem wrote:

DecepticonFinishline wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Choose the 3rd party over the original? No contest! Great bot mode but I'd rather that they weren't tanks.

I like that they're tanks. And I like that they have the optional pile drivers, but... The arms are just too.... They're too much. They seem wayyyyy out of proportion with the rest of the bot mode. I'll still get it no matter what. Then they can make that head remold of Scourge into Ratbat, grab my Overkill and my Ravage and put them all together. And then just hope for a Slugfest. Laser and Buzz if there's any way to pull that off.

For Laserbeak there's the Real Gear MP3 player whose name I forget.

Booster X10. I got him loose for cheap at a convention. I also have his baby blue repaint, Night Beat 7

Speaking of conventions, both Laserbeak and Buzzsaw had BotCon figures made, from Energon Divebomb.

True. And I liked those convention repaints, too. I just want something entirely new. The Decepticons are severely outnumbered in Classics, and I think that a lot of the cassettes (Audicons, as I like to call them) are overlooked and could really add some numbers to the dark side. Also, I just like Soundwave and his cassettes more than any other Transformer...

juxtapose519 wrote:Am I really the only one that thinks these are ugly as sin? Are we not sick of tanks yet? Would these not have made better Legends figures for half the price?

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE!!

I would much rather spend the money on the PE set.

I second that . What a mess. COme on peeps, think, is this just satisfying a craving for a frenzy & rumble update, it's a quick fix. Look at the originals, now look at these. They have unique styling yes, but it's not working. That other blue tanke that everyone loves, who is a homage to a chacter from the comics back in the day is also an ugly figure. I bet they were designed by the same person. I hat ethere style. The designers at fansproject know how to design and have there own flare. They take a Has/Tak design and eliminate everything I hate about it and replace with a design and style that is fresh but stil in keeping with what the initial brief would have been. I would gladly buy something from them without knowing what it looked like before hand as I know they are on the same page as me, where as Has/Tak designs are too hit and miss and there efforts to aim at a younger audience are just flawed from start.
Riding off homages to popular characters which aren't even half decent may make alot of you happy, but it just frustrates me and make me angry, Has/Tak need to recruit some new designers and rethink how they structure there design briefs.
You all need to raise your standards, I have alot of purchases which I rgeret now as a better version was released, and I gaurantee there will be a MP or third party offering which will wish you had saved your money, there kinda already is.

DTR69 wrote:

juxtapose519 wrote:Am I really the only one that thinks these are ugly as sin? Are we not sick of tanks yet? Would these not have made better Legends figures for half the price?

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE!!

I would much rather spend the money on the PE set.

I second that . What a mess. COme on peeps, think, is this just satisfying a craving for a frenzy & rumble update, it's a quick fix. Look at the originals, now look at these. They have unique styling yes, but it's not working. That other blue tanke that everyone loves, who is a homage to a chacter from the comics back in the day is also an ugly figure. I bet they were designed by the same person. I hat ethere style. The designers at fansproject know how to design and have there own flare. They take a Has/Tak design and eliminate everything I hate about it and replace with a design and style that is fresh but stil in keeping with what the initial brief would have been. I would gladly buy something from them without knowing what it looked like before hand as I know they are on the same page as me, where as Has/Tak designs are too hit and miss and there efforts to aim at a younger audience are just flawed from start.
Riding off homages to popular characters which aren't even half decent may make alot of you happy, but it just frustrates me and make me angry, Has/Tak need to recruit some new designers and rethink how they structure there design briefs.
You all need to raise your standards, I have alot of purchases which I rgeret now as a better version was released, and I gaurantee there will be a MP or third party offering which will wish you had saved your money, there kinda already is.

I'll give you this:

Designer: "Look, it's Rumble and Frenzy, but with more articulation, and they transform into cassettes"
Boss: "Cassette? What's a Cassette? Think the kids will buy something they don't know? Change it!"

That, and the United versions are still cheaper than their 3rd party counterparts. I think I've made my decision with that, as it's the best we'll get in a while.

I personaly don't ahve a problem with any of what you said, I just think they look stupid, the original figures look better designed. I hate there legs and every new thing about them. It's not an Armada Unicron situation when it's why the stupid glowing hand, there is nothing good about the figure apart from the design homage, take that away and you have a jumbled mess. W Look how refreshing Ratchet & Ironhide were, they had unique ransformation, quite clever I thought and a well designed bot mode that was an overhaul desperatly needed. The new homages are rubbish, and I'm not having it.
In England they haven't tapped into the kids market, it's literally collectors, and this don't cut the mustard. I've done my research it is different elswhere, this after all is aimed at collectors and it's crap simple as. The toys aimed specifucaly at kids like prime are better designed, I excpect so much more now.

DTR69 wrote:

juxtapose519 wrote:Am I really the only one that thinks these are ugly as sin? Are we not sick of tanks yet? Would these not have made better Legends figures for half the price?

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE!!

I would much rather spend the money on the PE set.

I second that . What a mess. COme on peeps, think, is this just satisfying a craving for a frenzy & rumble update, it's a quick fix. Look at the originals, now look at these. They have unique styling yes, but it's not working. That other blue tanke that everyone loves, who is a homage to a chacter from the comics back in the day is also an ugly figure. I bet they were designed by the same person. I hat ethere style. The designers at fansproject know how to design and have there own flare. They take a Has/Tak design and eliminate everything I hate about it and replace with a design and style that is fresh but stil in keeping with what the initial brief would have been. I would gladly buy something from them without knowing what it looked like before hand as I know they are on the same page as me, where as Has/Tak designs are too hit and miss and there efforts to aim at a younger audience are just flawed from start.
Riding off homages to popular characters which aren't even half decent may make alot of you happy, but it just frustrates me and make me angry, Has/Tak need to recruit some new designers and rethink how they structure there design briefs.
You all need to raise your standards, I have alot of purchases which I rgeret now as a better version was released, and I gaurantee there will be a MP or third party offering which will wish you had saved your money, there kinda already is.

I don't see it. Them turning into tanks is a non-issue for me. Given that there hasn't been a Soundwave that can get tapes in his chest since G1 I don't really care that they can't become tapes. Tanks is an unoriginal choice but it seems fairly appropriate.

Other than that I don't know what you're going on about. Their robot modes look fine, nice and G1-y with a little update, good pile-driver functions, nice cannons on the back. I like it. They're thoughtful, respectful updates that cost a fraction of the third party ones and look nicer to boot. The only reason I'm not more excited is that I'm not that interested in these characters to begin with.

HasTak really don't need to recruit new designers, their work on RTS and Generations is some of the best I've seen in years.

Duplicate post, sorry.

Diem wrote:

DTR69 wrote:

juxtapose519 wrote:Am I really the only one that thinks these are ugly as sin? Are we not sick of tanks yet? Would these not have made better Legends figures for half the price?

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE!!

I would much rather spend the money on the PE set.

I second that . What a mess. COme on peeps, think, is this just satisfying a craving for a frenzy & rumble update, it's a quick fix. Look at the originals, now look at these. They have unique styling yes, but it's not working. That other blue tanke that everyone loves, who is a homage to a chacter from the comics back in the day is also an ugly figure. I bet they were designed by the same person. I hat ethere style. The designers at fansproject know how to design and have there own flare. They take a Has/Tak design and eliminate everything I hate about it and replace with a design and style that is fresh but stil in keeping with what the initial brief would have been. I would gladly buy something from them without knowing what it looked like before hand as I know they are on the same page as me, where as Has/Tak designs are too hit and miss and there efforts to aim at a younger audience are just flawed from start.
Riding off homages to popular characters which aren't even half decent may make alot of you happy, but it just frustrates me and make me angry, Has/Tak need to recruit some new designers and rethink how they structure there design briefs.
You all need to raise your standards, I have alot of purchases which I rgeret now as a better version was released, and I gaurantee there will be a MP or third party offering which will wish you had saved your money, there kinda already is.

I don't see it. Them turning into tanks is a non-issue for me. Given that there hasn't been a Soundwave that can get tapes in his chest since G1 I don't really care that they can't become tapes. Tanks is an unoriginal choice but it seems fairly appropriate.

Other than that I don't know what you're going on about. Their robot modes look fine, nice and G1-y with a little update, good pile-driver functions, nice cannons on the back. I like it. They're thoughtful, respectful updates that cost a fraction of the third party ones and look nicer to boot. The only reason I'm not more excited is that I'm not that interested in these characters to begin with.

HasTak really don't need to recruit new designers, their work on RTS and Generations is some of the best I've seen in years.

I agree with you here. Although I'm not a fan of the tank kibble, a change seemed necessary. Classics Ravage turned into a cassette and his alt. mode is pretty much useless. WFC SW is nice, but nothing fits in his chest(other than his own weapons). Music label has given us probably the best up-to-date version of Soundwave since the original and he cannot hold anything. A cassette alt. mode would have been rather useless at this point.

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
I'm wondering if I should go for Perfect Effect's Frenzy & Rumble now.

EDIT: Nevermind, they cost more than the TakaraTomy set. Geez.

You do realize that those 2 are just straight up repaints as well, right?

As are these.

The PE set is excellent as far as scale with WFC SW. But slightly out of scale with Ravage.

DTR69 wrote:In England they haven't tapped into the kids market, it's literally collectors, and this don't cut the mustard. I've done my research it is different elswhere, this after all is aimed at collectors and it's crap simple as. The toys aimed specifucaly at kids like prime are better designed, I excpect so much more now.

Wait, what?

These figures are aimed both at kids and collectors everywhere they are sold. Even figures that are ostensibly for adult collectors such as Alternators or Hasbro Masterpiece are still found first and foremost at toy stores. Probably the only figures that are designed purely for collectors are BotCon figures.

While I can understand the tank hate (seriously does everything have to be a tank or truck these days?), it's probably the most viable option since making them weapons would result in consumer confusion with the Mini-Con toys. As for myself while I love Rumble/Frenzy, it's the scale that's putting me off of them more than what mode was used, plus those gangly arms.

I guess I will be the one to come to the defense.... Are they perfect?? No. Some things many of us would like to change? Ofcourse. After 27 years are you about to buy (and I know you will) a fresh new version of your childhood play thing that not only bares a striking resemblance to your long lost toy, but has some improvements like articulation and size? Certainly HATE, is a little over the top. Like it or not, just buy it. That way they continue to throw us a G1 bone from time to time.

GetRightRobot wrote:I guess I will be the one to come to the defense.... Are they perfect?? No. Some things many of us would like to change? Ofcourse. After 27 years are you about to buy (and I know you will) a fresh new version of your childhood play thing that not only bares a striking resemblance to your long lost toy, but has some improvements like articulation and size? Certainly HATE, is a little over the top. Like it or not, just buy it. That way they continue to throw us a G1 bone from time to time.

This says it all, really. If we stop buying the characters that WE want, all we're going to get are toys from the movies (which I'm personally not a fan of sans Tomahawk and Terradive.) or any other animated series that is released. And, while I liked Armada and Animated as a television show, the toys lacked what I truly loved. I think the arms and feet look stupid too, but I have never owned an official Rumble or Frenzy, and I'll be damned if I going to let these slip through my fingers.

Nujevad wrote:

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:While there's no way in hell these guys will fit into WFC Soundwave's chest, they DO look decently scaled while being posed with Music Label Soundwave, which is roughly the same size as his WFC counterpart.

Definite must-buy.

Frenzy and Rumble were supposed to be slightly taller than human size so if they were to be in scale with a deluxe Soundwave, they should be somewhere around his knees.

True. However, I'm personally satisfied enough with the scale of these guys when posed with either WFC or Music Label Soundwave [an adult with little children.]

I seriously doubt Hasbro or even Takara might manufacture a voyager or leader class neo-G1 Soundwave with perfectly in-scale Rumble/Frenzy in the foreseeable future, so to me, this is about a good as it gets for now. At least these guys don't look too ridiculous, like WFC Bumblebee and WFC OP. In the game, Bee was supposed to be only slightly above elbow height of OP, but as deluxe toys, he almost looks larger than Prime himself due to his bigger head...or maybe it's Prime's head that's small?

Diem wrote:

DTR69 wrote:In England they haven't tapped into the kids market, it's literally collectors, and this don't cut the mustard. I've done my research it is different elswhere, this after all is aimed at collectors and it's crap simple as. The toys aimed specifucaly at kids like prime are better designed, I excpect so much more now.

Wait, what?

These figures are aimed both at kids and collectors everywhere they are sold. Even figures that are ostensibly for adult collectors such as Alternators or Hasbro Masterpiece are still found first and foremost at toy stores. Probably the only figures that are designed purely for collectors are BotCon figures.

Well why don't they o something about the fact that aprt from the movie, kids in the UK have no idea or interest in Transformers, leaving there only market collectors. And since they are a homeage to G1 characters, they need to do better than that to get my money.

I for one have no problem with them being tanks, and although I am G1 in my heart, I really don't care if soundwave has to eject his minions out of his chest. If there is no valid reason now since tapes are obsolete to many, they still have a place, but g1 was about form follows function, some people see g1 another way, where eveything has to be a certain way, but if g1 was today it would follow todays rules.

G1 was an evolving line, that means it still can evolve today. Look at Dreamwave an IDW they invent new story lines and new characters that have no connection to G1 of the past, but they follow the same spirit therefor it is G1. Drift is G1 yet he is totaly new. Please don't think that all Geewunners all think the same. G1 is living breathing concept, it's not a bunch of plastic that was limited to what technology and funding was available years ago.

If frenzy & Rumble are to be tanks, thats kool but they better be good. And if kids ar the main audience, they better target them and make the show accessable, cause kids have no idea what transformers are, so all you peeps who think collectors are the minority, you have to realise that the world is bigger than where you live.

DTR69 wrote:

Diem wrote:

DTR69 wrote:In England they haven't tapped into the kids market, it's literally collectors, and this don't cut the mustard. I've done my research it is different elswhere, this after all is aimed at collectors and it's crap simple as. The toys aimed specifucaly at kids like prime are better designed, I excpect so much more now.

Wait, what?

These figures are aimed both at kids and collectors everywhere they are sold. Even figures that are ostensibly for adult collectors such as Alternators or Hasbro Masterpiece are still found first and foremost at toy stores. Probably the only figures that are designed purely for collectors are BotCon figures.

Well why don't they o something about the fact that aprt from the movie, kids in the UK have no idea or interest in Transformers, leaving there only market collectors. And since they are a homeage to G1 characters, they need to do better than that to get my money.

I for one have no problem with them being tanks, and although I am G1 in my heart, I really don't care if soundwave has to eject his minions out of his chest. If there is no valid reason now since tapes are obsolete to many, they still have a place, but g1 was about form follows function, some people see g1 another way, where eveything has to be a certain way, but if g1 was today it would follow todays rules.

G1 was an evolving line, that means it still can evolve today. Look at Dreamwave an IDW they invent new story lines and new characters that have no connection to G1 of the past, but they follow the same spirit therefor it is G1. Drift is G1 yet he is totaly new. Please don't think that all Geewunners all think the same. G1 is living breathing concept, it's not a bunch of plastic that was limited to what technology and funding was available years ago.

If frenzy & Rumble are to be tanks, thats kool but they better be good. And if kids ar the main audience, they better target them and make the show accessable, cause kids have no idea what transformers are, so all you peeps who think collectors are the minority, you have to realise that the world is bigger than where you live.

Wow. Where to begin.... First off, your assumption about our near sited opinions involving "where we live". I'll simply say: TOYS. In case that is not self explanatory. Dictionary.com defines toy as: –noun
1.
an object, often a small representation of something familiar, as an animal or person, for children to play with; plaything.

Adult collectors find value and pleasure in CHILDREN TOYS, not the other way around. Kids don't want Ming dynasty pottery.

The UK, as wonderful as it may be, is home to neither Hasbro or Takara Tomy. YOU have to realize the work involved to market the ENTIRE planet. Truth is, you guys get little because you are the minority. Transformers has had a running cartoon in America for nearly as long as the brand has existed. 19 out of 26 years you could find (including re-runs) animated series that targeted kids. Why? To sell their toys.

You can imagine it it's harder to get Transformers in Zimbobwai than Kentucky. I've been a fan since the beginning. Beginning with the "Classics" line in 2006, collectors have been receiving updated version's of their favorite characters. Before that, the idea of new characters and reinvention has been the direction of Has/Tak. But first they must make them fun for kids. The fact that people are complaining at all after finally getting some G1 love in its purist form is pathetic.

Finally...My God are you actually upset about scale? Seriously? Did you buy an RTS Wreck Gar? Have you ever heard of a character named Astrotrain? Have you ever seen Transformers before?

In closing, if you can do better, go ahead and make it! I'd love to see it when it's finished.

GetRightRobot wrote:

DTR69 wrote:

Diem wrote:

DTR69 wrote:In England they haven't tapped into the kids market, it's literally collectors, and this don't cut the mustard. I've done my research it is different elswhere, this after all is aimed at collectors and it's crap simple as. The toys aimed specifucaly at kids like prime are better designed, I excpect so much more now.

Wait, what?

These figures are aimed both at kids and collectors everywhere they are sold. Even figures that are ostensibly for adult collectors such as Alternators or Hasbro Masterpiece are still found first and foremost at toy stores. Probably the only figures that are designed purely for collectors are BotCon figures.

Well why don't they o something about the fact that aprt from the movie, kids in the UK have no idea or interest in Transformers, leaving there only market collectors. And since they are a homeage to G1 characters, they need to do better than that to get my money.

I for one have no problem with them being tanks, and although I am G1 in my heart, I really don't care if soundwave has to eject his minions out of his chest. If there is no valid reason now since tapes are obsolete to many, they still have a place, but g1 was about form follows function, some people see g1 another way, where eveything has to be a certain way, but if g1 was today it would follow todays rules.

G1 was an evolving line, that means it still can evolve today. Look at Dreamwave an IDW they invent new story lines and new characters that have no connection to G1 of the past, but they follow the same spirit therefor it is G1. Drift is G1 yet he is totaly new. Please don't think that all Geewunners all think the same. G1 is living breathing concept, it's not a bunch of plastic that was limited to what technology and funding was available years ago.

If frenzy & Rumble are to be tanks, thats kool but they better be good. And if kids ar the main audience, they better target them and make the show accessable, cause kids have no idea what transformers are, so all you peeps who think collectors are the minority, you have to realise that the world is bigger than where you live.

Wow. Where to begin.... First off, your assumption about our near sited opinions involving "where we live". I'll simply say: TOYS. In case that is not self explanatory. Dictionary.com defines toy as: –noun
1.
an object, often a small representation of something familiar, as an animal or person, for children to play with; plaything.

Adult collectors find value and pleasure in CHILDREN TOYS, not the other way around. Kids don't want Ming dynasty pottery.

The UK, as wonderful as it may be, is home to neither Hasbro or Takara Tomy. YOU have to realize the work involved to market the ENTIRE planet. Truth is, you guys get little because you are the minority. Transformers has had a running cartoon in America for nearly as long as the brand has existed. 19 out of 26 years you could find (including re-runs) animated series that targeted kids. Why? To sell their toys.

You can imagine it it's harder to get Transformers in Zimbobwai than Kentucky. I've been a fan since the beginning. Beginning with the "Classics" line in 2006, collectors have been receiving updated version's of their favorite characters. Before that, the idea of new characters and reinvention has been the direction of Has/Tak. But first they must make them fun for kids. The fact that people are complaining at all after finally getting some G1 love in its purist form is pathetic.

Finally...My God are you actually upset about scale? Seriously? Did you buy an RTS Wreck Gar? Have you ever heard of a character named Astrotrain? Have you ever seen Transformers before?

In closing, if you can do better, go ahead and make it! I'd love to see it when it's finished.

The fact that you feel ypu can talk on behalf of a large number of people who you have no idea how they feel is beyond me. When did I say I was upset about scale. All I'm saying is that these toys are obviously trying to win we over due to the homage. And as they don't have a large kid following in the UK it's mainly collectors, so they will have a job getting my money. People compain about all sorts of minor things why should my complaint be any different.

Lets not make this any bitchy than it needs to be. All I'm saying is that they need to promote to kids more in the UK and it's obvious that collectors money is something they are after as homages bring in money, even toylines aimed at kids still retain features to keep collectors in, prime is always red and blue for a reason etc. THe designs are not as good as early classics. And the UK is a big market we had out own transformers comic remember, the country is not wide open desert with the odd town, it's packed, so if the promotion of TFs is poor here I can assure you it's the same elsewhere, in places where it has to be translated etc.

I know what I'm talking about when it comes to design, I'm not the only one who feels like this, and I know other designers who work for big names and they think alike, and I have done some research here about the market that they are reaching. If you feel that in this economic climate that countries like the UK can be dissmissed and the majority think like you then no wonder the economy is so bad.

Yes I have a strong opinion about the designs of current figures, so what, the fact that you are more concerned that I have an opinion rather than the figures themselves is odd. I don't think I will be loosing sleep over this. And others might be happy with you making out you know what they think, but please don't make stuff up that I didn't even say. You know I might be right, I have an open mind about things, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. All I'm saying is we deserve better, I'm not trying to make your life miserable.

And finaly you ask could I do better. Yes I think I can, and I also think you can too, That skyfire you made is pretty kool, and thats my point, the fans can do better, thats the situation right now. That's really kool. I just made myself a ustom arcade stick, I put alot of hidden detail in, I'm gonna step things up I just wish I had your patients.

Ok, you pretty much just repeated yourself. You don't have to worry "making my life miserable". Your opinion means so little to me it cannot be calculated. Have one, have ten. My point is it has become extremely fashionable to whine about designs.

You accuse me of speaking for other people? Like: "I'm not the only one who feels like this, and I know other designers who work for big names and they think alike"? or "And others might be happy with you making out you know what they think"? (amazing you speak for other people in the same sentence you complain about someone else doing it, nice)

If UK was such a MASSIVE untapped market, why then I wonder that the single most successful toy company has somehow missed this? You would think they had a team people doing demographic studies or something. But surely these mysterious "other designers who work for big names" know better than them. Silly Has/Tak.

I will give you the scale thing. It was juxtapose519 who complained about scale. For that, I apologize, perhaps he will read this pointless chatter and see that scale has NEVER been a big concern for this franchise.

In closing, try not be angry with me. I don't get upset easily, and I'm not now. I live in a lovely beach area in a wonderful country and have a room filled with these awesome little toys. Just remember, when you troll like a negative Nancy, there is bound to be someone out there who will have to repeat your mother "If you cannot say something nice, don't say anything at all." Remember, there are alot of fans on here that love these guys. I'm quite fond of them myself. You bashing them is just, well, pointless. You are not alone. I have to try very hard not to constantly insult movieverse figures. Man is it hard to resist! But instead of trolling, get some of your high powered, in-the-know, major designers, and make better! I would love to buy something you make. You seem to have all the answers to fix these horrible figures. Please PM when you have a working prototype! I'm so excited!

That's right Has/Tak are so great look at the TF live action movie, look at who they allowd to produce it. Michael Bay, Yeah leave it with him, he'll do us proud. They don't do anything wrong do they. Power core combiners what a refreshing fun idea. You are just as patronising as Hasbro. And They do push transformers in the UK Toys R Us is full of them, it's just the kids don't even know they are there. Hasbro aren't on the ball. Sometimes big companies make mistakes. And when I talk on behalf of people I'm talking about things that they have actualy said to me, you are talking on behalf of people you have never even spoke to or met. And if you weren't so bothered, what's all this I'm reading, and why do you feel the need to shut people up if you don't like what you here, who do you think you are the president of Lybia.

And you talk about Anerica Beeing the home of Hasbro etc, but it's not the home of transformers, the figures were beeing sold in Japan and eurpoe long before Hasbro brought them to the States. Hasbro maybe successful but they have borrowed alot from others, they are not the creators of great inovations and ideas, and they stil aren't the ones producing the best Transformers, Tf live action movie, Power core combiners, are nothing compare dthe Mp and BT line, and thats nothing to do with hasbro that's Takara. Fansproject have to clean up the mess alot of the times. It's others that have made TFs what they are today, yes Hasbro brought alot of it together, but they need to look long and hard at what they are doing and take note, if it wasn't for the other companies Hasbro's Transformers would not be the great franchise it is today, and if it were left entirely to Hasbro it would be an absolute mess.

*sighs* Here we go again.

DTR69 wrote:That's right Has/Tak are so great look at the TF live action movie, look at who they allowd to produce it. Michael Bay, Yeah leave it with him, he'll do us proud. They don't do anything wrong do they.

1.) TakaraTomy had little to no input for the movies. If you watch the credits, or read the bottom of a poster or a DVD/Blu Ray case, you'll see "In Association With Hasbro" or Hasbro Studios. You see no mention of TakaraTomy anywhere. They help design the toys, but Hasbro's running the show on the movies. Don't blame TakaraTomy for that.

2.) Bay did not produce the films. He directed them, and that's a BIG difference. Stephen Spielberg is the executive producer, followed by DiBonaventura and that halfwit Don Murphy. They produce, Bay directs. He has some control over the final product, but they have final say so, along with Paramount and Dreamworks. And if you think the movie company won't step in and tell him to dumb it down, you're wrong. Hasbro has some say so, but not entirely.

3.) No one said anyone was innocent in any of this. However, you're the only one flinging guilt like poo, and for no good reason.

DTR69 wrote:Power core combiners what a refreshing fun idea. You are just as patronising as Hasbro. And They do push transformers in the UK Toys R Us is full of them, it's just the kids don't even know they are there. Hasbro aren't on the ball. Sometimes big companies make mistakes. And when I talk on behalf of people I'm talking about things that they have actualy said to me, you are talking on behalf of people you have never even spoke to or met. And if you weren't so bothered, what's all this I'm reading, and why do you feel the need to shut people up if you don't like what you here, who do you think you are the president of Lybia.

Wow. Ended that one with a flame, eh? Fail. Absolute fail.

I don't know what the current state of affairs is, in terms of TFs, in the UK, but I do know that while you've spoken to a few people and share their opinion...you do not speak for everyone. Your ego allows you to think you do, but it's just an absolute FACT that you do not speak for everyone in the UK when it comes to TFs. You just don't. It's impossible.

People don't want to hear your point of view because it's full of hyperbole, you're abusive in your responses, and you won't hear another person's opinion, no matter what. And you most certainly won't listen to facts, so why would we want to deal with you?

As for Power Core Combiners, they tried it, it apparently didn't work out all that well, and no one's forcing you to buy 'em. So what? It's not the end of the world that they exist.

DTR69 wrote:And you talk about Anerica Beeing the home of Hasbro etc, but it's not the home of transformers, the figures were beeing sold in Japan and eurpoe long before Hasbro brought them to the States. Hasbro maybe successful but they have borrowed alot from others, they are not the creators of great inovations and ideas, and they stil aren't the ones producing the best Transformers, Tf live action movie, Power core combiners, are nothing compare dthe Mp and BT line, and thats nothing to do with hasbro that's Takara. Fansproject have to clean up the mess alot of the times. It's others that have made TFs what they are today, yes Hasbro brought alot of it together, but they need to look long and hard at what they are doing and take note, if it wasn't for the other companies Hasbro's Transformers would not be the great franchise it is today, and if it were left entirely to Hasbro it would be an absolute mess.

America IS the home of TransFormers. You're missing one key piece here...

Yes, Takara created the original molds for their Microman and Diaclone lines. So, yes, they did exist as different robots in different universes, in a rainbow of different colors. They also came with magnetic pilots, making them mechs, not living robots.

Hasbro saw these, and thought they'd be great as a new series, seeing as they hadn't come to the US, or at least not like Hasbro had planned.

Hasbro created the brand TransFormers. Created the names Megatron and Optimus Prime. They utilized Takara's molds, but everything else, and I mean EVERYTHING else is all Hasbro's doing. Hasbro even started designing their own characters that Japan had never seen before.

If it weren't for Takara's original molds, we wouldn't have the designs we've come to know and love, but if it weren't for Hasbro, we wouldn't have the property, the universe, or the characters that we love. There IS a difference, and you either can't see it, or you're unwilling.

Either way, you are wrong on this one. TransFormers is an American based property, created and devised by Hasbro in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. Not Takara of Japan.

You seem to be missing one important point. Hasbro and TakaraTomy design the toys together, and have done so for at least a decade.

Binaltech/Alternators? Joint venture.
Masterpiece? Joint venture.
I might have to concede that TakaraTomy are alone in the design of the Alternity figures, in fact, I'm almost certain Hasbro had nothing to do with those, but the rest? They work TOGETHER.

Both are to be praised for the line's strengths, and both are to be put down for the line's weaknesses.

Oh, and one more thing...sure, FansProject and their kin are incredibly talented, and come up with some incredible pieces, but they're also not held back by safety laws and they don't have to factor children into the equation. Hasbro, and to some extent, TakaraTomy, does.

The HasTak designers are capable of coming up with stuff like City Commander and so on, but they're restrained by laws that won't allow them to. HasTak wouldn't be in this game as long as they have been if they didn't know what they were doing. It's been a quarter of a century and then some, and they still wow us every chance they get.

3rd party builds upon preexisting work, and rarely creates something new. It could be argued that Warbot Defender is new, but really, we all know he's their interpretation of a preexisting character made by HASBRO. That doesn't diminish his impact, but it doesn't super special either.

Man, you are entitled to your opinion, but when you won't play fair and you won't even listen to what other people say, we don't want to deal with you. We just don't.

DTR69 wrote:And when I talk on behalf of people I'm talking about things that they have actualy said to me, you are talking on behalf of people you have never even spoke to or met.

How about me?

Can I pull enough swing to just say that your arguments are a crock of crap and move on?

I think so.

I mean, you have no intention of actually debating this with anyone right? We'll just have some vague generalities about "collectors" and "kids" etc, Michael Bay and "fans", right?

I mean, you're wrong right off the bat about where Transformers the brand originated. Why should anyone take anything you say to heart?

Autobot032 wrote:Hasbro created the brand TransFormers. Created the names Megatron and Optimus Prime.

Actually the name of "Megatron" was borrowed from Marvel comic run of Shogun Warriors.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Hasbro created the brand TransFormers. Created the names Megatron and Optimus Prime.

Actually the name of "Megatron" was borrowed from Marvel comic run of Shogun Warriors.

Do you have a reference for that or is it just coincidental?

I mean, at BotCon, Budiansky said that they were just looking for the most evil sounding thing they could go with and at the time, "megaton" as in reference to a nuclear weapon and the looming threat of the USSR was one of the most menacing things they could come up with. But that was deemed too much and was altered to "Megatron" to tone it down, but still allude to the threat.

Counterpunch wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Hasbro created the brand TransFormers. Created the names Megatron and Optimus Prime.

Actually the name of "Megatron" was borrowed from Marvel comic run of Shogun Warriors.

Do you have a reference for that or is it just coincidental?

It might be coincidental but I dont believe it to be so.

Jim Shooter was "involved" with the nameing of the TF's first wave, most names were changed , for example Blow-out became Cliffjumper.

But Jim was Editor-in-Chief at the time and was also involved with how the Shogun story was laied out.

Counterpunch wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Hasbro created the brand TransFormers. Created the names Megatron and Optimus Prime.

Actually the name of "Megatron" was borrowed from Marvel comic run of Shogun Warriors.

Do you have a reference for that or is it just coincidental?

I mean, at BotCon, Budiansky said that they were just looking for the most evil sounding thing they could go with and at the time, "megaton" as in reference to a nuclear weapon and the looming threat of the USSR was one of the most menacing things they could come up with. But that was deemed too much and was altered to "Megatron" to tone it down, but still allude to the threat.

Actually CP he is half right. The name Megatron was already used by Marvel in their licensed Shogun Warriors book. The atomic megaton with an electronics twist origin for the name in Transformers is true as well. It was pointed out in the naming stage that the name was in use already but the editorial response was basically "Wait, so we already own the name? Great! Use it again." By this time the Shogun Warriors license had already expired so there was no conflict over it.

The name was both an original creation and had been used in an earlier giant robot toy line property. I think that it did better in the Transformers line over all!

This is fun. I like you.

DTR69 wrote:That's right Has/Tak are so great look at the TF live action movie, look at who they allowd to produce it. Michael Bay, Yeah leave it with him, he'll do us proud. They don't do anything wrong do they. Power core combiners what a refreshing fun idea. You are just as patronising as Hasbro.

Agree completely on all points.

DTR69 wrote:And They do push transformers in the UK Toys R Us is full of them, it's just the kids don't even know they are there. Hasbro aren't(is not) on the ball. Sometimes big companies make mistakes.

Currently the only line of transformers that have a show (commercial) are movie figures. It is the same across the entire planet. UK is no more passed over than the rest us. PCC, Generations, RTS all of them have no show or promotion. Perhaps children in the UK are passed over by their parents.

DTR69 wrote: And when I talk on behalf of people I'm talking about things that they have actualy(actually) said to me, you are talking on behalf of people you have never even spoke to or met. And if you weren't so bothered, what's all this I'm reading, and why do you feel the need to shut people up if you don't like what you here, who do you think you are the president of Lybia.(?)

After attending Botcon, I have quite the extensive group of collectors with whom I communicate. The people I speak for are of one voice in this particular matter. Probally similar to yourself. As far as responding to your defensive little posts, it entertains me.

DTR69 wrote:And Yyou talk about Anerica(America) Beeing(being) the home of Hasbro etc, but it's not the home of transformers, the figures were beeingbeing sold in Japan and eurpoe(Europe) long before Hasbro brought them to the States. Hasbro maybe(may be) successful but they have borrowed alot from others, they are not the creators of great inovations(innovations) and ideas, and they stil(still) aren't the ones producing the best Transformers, Tf live action movie, Power core combiners, are nothing compare dthe (?) Mp and BT line, and thats nothing to do with hasbro that's Takara. Fansproject have to clean up the mess alot of the times. It's others that have made TFs what they are today, yes Hasbro brought alot of it together, but they need to look long and hard at what they are doing and take note, if it wasn't for the other companies Hasbro's Transformers would not be the great franchise it is today, and if it were left entirely to Hasbro it would be an absolute mess.

I'm quite well aware of Hideaki Yoki's work that began in 1974 when Takara charged him the responsibility of creating a new play pattern toy. Hasbro may not have invented the toys at first, but they were able to take two (and half with Roadbuster/Whirl/Skyfire) quasi successful toy lines; Diaclone and Microman and promote them with memorable character personalities, that have survived the test of time. Without Hasbro, Transformers would NEVER have existed. So bash away, but your hobby belongs to them. Fansproject has made 5 upgrades to Has/Tak product. I have all of them except the CJ! They are truly awesome! However, they can never be sold in stores. The costs, and small parts would doom their ability to mass produce. They fill a niche in a much larger market. To suggest that 3rd party companies are keeping the international corporation afloat with modifications to their own products is not only absurd, it's pretty much retarded.

The part you said about Lybia is pretty funny!

DTR69 wrote:That's right Has/Tak are so great look at the TF live action movie, look at who they allowd to produce it. Michael Bay, Yeah leave it with him, he'll do us proud. They don't do anything wrong do they. Power core combiners what a refreshing fun idea.

The films, despite their flaws, have been a ridiculous financial success for Hasbro. I don't think anyone at Hasbro is crying themselves to sleep at night over it.

I like the Power Core Combiner concept. I do realize I'm in the minority, and Hasbro probably does as well. They took a chance. It didn't pan out. That happens.

DTR69 wrote:And you talk about Anerica Beeing the home of Hasbro etc, but it's not the home of transformers, the figures were beeing sold in Japan and eurpoe long before Hasbro brought them to the States. . . . if it wasn't for the other companies Hasbro's Transformers would not be the great franchise it is today, and if it were left entirely to Hasbro it would be an absolute mess.

I think Hasbro is looking beyond the United States better than you are looking beyond the UK.

Adult collectors may be a much larger share of the market in the UK as compared to the United States, but that's irrelevant. It would be irrelevant even if the reverse were true. What matters is the overall world market. Collectors could be 100% of the UK market, but if they only represent 20% of the world market, Hasbro will continue to focus on the 80% that are kids.

This has somehow turned into a United Kingdom vs United States fight. Hasbro doesn't care about that. All they care about is making money. That's why business exists. To make money.

And, honestly, I don't even know what your complaint is. You hate these guys. You hate Straxus. I don't get it. The Straxus toy was an unbelievable representation of a character that was never intended to be a toy. These guys are clearly Rumble and Frenzy to me. I can't wait to pick them up.

the listing for this set has been completely removed from Toyarena....no "sold out" just GONE!

had to check my account to make sure I still had a standing order with them.