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Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Thu May 28, 2015 12:08 am

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SlyTF1 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:The only difference being, is that people in real life actually like me, because I'm an "*******."


And much like your claims to being a god, I'm calling **** on that one.


'Tis the internet. Where men are men, gods are men, women are also men, and children are FBI agents.

But back to the part about him claiming to being liked even as an a-hole, I remember a certain theme restaurant where the staff and waiters cuss you out and verbally abuse you as part of the novelty attraction. Maybe he works there?
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Burn » Thu May 28, 2015 12:38 am

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SlyTF1 wrote:I don't understand how people can be against someone's work because they don't like the individual. There are plenty of people I don't like, yet I enjoy their works. Because you disagree with them, they deserve to be boycotted?


ummm yes ... why would I support someone, and most likely, hand over my money for their creations if I disagree with their beliefs?

Why would I say "love your stuff, have my money! Oh but I hate you because of your homophobic stance." Seriously ... that makes no sense.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SlyTF1 » Thu May 28, 2015 1:29 am

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Burn wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:I don't understand how people can be against someone's work because they don't like the individual. There are plenty of people I don't like, yet I enjoy their works. Because you disagree with them, they deserve to be boycotted?


ummm yes ... why would I support someone, and most likely, hand over my money for their creations if I disagree with their beliefs?

Why would I say "love your stuff, have my money! Oh but I hate you because of your homophobic stance." Seriously ... that makes no sense.


I take it you refuse any product created by someone with a stance you disagree with?
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Shadowman » Thu May 28, 2015 2:05 am

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SlyTF1 wrote:
Burn wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:I don't understand how people can be against someone's work because they don't like the individual. There are plenty of people I don't like, yet I enjoy their works. Because you disagree with them, they deserve to be boycotted?


ummm yes ... why would I support someone, and most likely, hand over my money for their creations if I disagree with their beliefs?

Why would I say "love your stuff, have my money! Oh but I hate you because of your homophobic stance." Seriously ... that makes no sense.


I take it you refuse any product created by someone with a stance you disagree with?


No. You'd have to be a complete idiot to believe someone would research the creator(s) of each and every product they use. But when it's a work created by jut one guy, like a book, then yeah, that's how it goes.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Thu May 28, 2015 2:12 am

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SlyTF1 wrote:
Burn wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:I don't understand how people can be against someone's work because they don't like the individual. There are plenty of people I don't like, yet I enjoy their works. Because you disagree with them, they deserve to be boycotted?


ummm yes ... why would I support someone, and most likely, hand over my money for their creations if I disagree with their beliefs?

Why would I say "love your stuff, have my money! Oh but I hate you because of your homophobic stance." Seriously ... that makes no sense.


I take it you refuse any product created by someone with a stance you disagree with?


Depends on what the maker's particular "crime" is.

Smear campaigns exist because personal opinions matter in a choice a consumer makes--it's a fact of life. They are also quite specialized in their intended target. When JK Rowling's Harry Potter books started flying off the shelves (no pun intended), a rumor started making the rounds, stating that she promoted witchcraft or was even a witch herself, in some cases. Christians boycotted the books, and wouldn't allow their children to watch the movies.

There was even a short-lived rumor going on that Pokemon was patterned after pagan gods.

And then there's Tommy Hilfiger's alleged racist statements made during The Oprah Winfrey Show. The CEO of Johnson and Johnson was a victim of a similar smear campaign, accusing him of being a Satanist. Same thing with Liz Claiborne. And the list goes on.

And of course,the most famous case being Michael Jackson's alleged pedophilia. His career never recovered from that.

It's all very specific to what a particular consumer feels strongly about. If a certain writer or producer of an item were racist against your skin color and makes insulting remarks about your ethnicity, would you read his work or use a product made by him?

Image matters, which is why there are PR companies making millions of dollars from corporations, public figures and celebrities.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Burn » Thu May 28, 2015 2:37 am

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SKYWARPED_128 wrote:The CEO of Johnson and Johnson was a victim of a similar smear campaign, accusing him of being a Satanist.

Wasn't just the CEO. I remember first seeing that stuff back in the 90's, a letter circulating around stating that J&J profits supported Satanism. Even today it's still out there.

Of course there's no way to prove whether it's fact or fiction.

But L. Ron Hubbard founding a cult and Orson Scott being a homophobe? Those are facts, and I will not be going anywhere near their stuff.

SlyTF1, I don't get why you can't understand that way of thinking. So I guess you're okay with handing over your hard earned money to a cult that brainwashes its members and persecutes those who try to leave their "church" and speak out about it?
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Thu May 28, 2015 2:50 am

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Burn wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:The CEO of Johnson and Johnson was a victim of a similar smear campaign, accusing him of being a Satanist.

Wasn't just the CEO. I remember first seeing that stuff back in the 90's, a letter circulating around stating that J&J profits supported Satanism. Even today it's still out there.

Of course there's no way to prove whether it's fact or fiction.

But L. Ron Hubbard founding a cult and Orson Scott being a homophobe? Those are facts, and I will not be going anywhere near their stuff.

I don't get why you can't understand that way of thinking. So I guess you're okay with handing over your hard earned money to a cult that brainwashes its members and persecutes those who try to leave their "church" and speak out about it?


Just so we're clear, I didn't state any opinions in defense Hubbard or Card or anyone else, for that matter. In fact, I didn't even mention them. If anything, I think Hubbard's a conman and am really disappointed with Card's homophobia. I used to love the Ender novels, but homophobia is just as bad as racism IMO.

Although I get the feeling that your last 2 paragraphs were meant for Sly instead. :oops:
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Burn » Thu May 28, 2015 2:53 am

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SKYWARPED_128 wrote:Although I get the feeling that your last 2 paragraphs were meant for Sly instead. :oops:

They were. Forgot I had replied to you when I went ranty. Will fix that up.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Mykltron » Thu May 28, 2015 6:07 am

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SlyTF1 wrote:I got about 5 people who actually wanted to read it, that's all I need, money.

If your writing is as clear, concise and engaging as that sentence it must be quite a read.

Ironhidensh wrote:This thread has me thinking though, how many of us act the same online, as we do in real life.

I'm pretty much the same in real life. A helpful, obsessive perfectionist that sometimes accidentally causes offence.

Burn wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:The CEO of Johnson and Johnson was a victim of a similar smear campaign, accusing him of being a Satanist.

Wasn't just the CEO. I remember first seeing that stuff back in the 90's, a letter circulating around stating that J&J profits supported Satanism. Even today it's still out there.

Just FYI, true Satanists aren't the baby-sacrificing paedophiles that they're made out to be. That's Christian propaganda. The Sumerians (they invented writing, hospitals, schools, the wheel, the sail boat, irrigation and other things) worshipped Satan as the caring god that freed mankind from the slavery for which it was created.

Anyway, back on topic: I would like to thank ZaraSlystra and everybody else that has contributed to this most amusing thread!
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Thu May 28, 2015 7:51 am

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Mykltron wrote:Just FYI, true Satanists aren't the baby-sacrificing paedophiles that they're made out to be. That's Christian propaganda. The Sumerians (they invented writing, hospitals, schools, the wheel, the sail boat, irrigation and other things) worshipped Satan as the caring god that freed mankind from the slavery for which it was created.


IIRC, the Gnostics had a similar view as well.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Dagon » Thu May 28, 2015 8:35 am

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I'm sure I'll get flamed for not going along with everyone here, but I don't think a person has to reject a creation because they disagree with the personal values of the creator. While I certainly do respect peoples' commitment to doing that, it has always seemed to be something that I was able to hold separate. I won't support businesses that are vocally homophobic or things like that, but if a writer or musician or whatever were to be 'exposed' as a bigot, in most cases I've always been able to ignore it so as to be able to engage their work.
I know that this is a really 'unpopular' way to be, not automatically rejecting things because they were made by someone who is socially or morally lacking. Maybe it's the English degrees, and I've just learned how to separate the writer from the work so that I don't HAVE to see their personal views in every thing, despite knowing that they are there.

tl;dr: "ZOMG you would read somethign by racist and not throw it away becasue racism is bad???????"

Yes, I would and I have. But if you choose not to, I respect that and can understand why you would do so.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby RhA » Thu May 28, 2015 8:53 am

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Dagon wrote:I'm sure I'll get flamed for not going along with everyone here, but I don't think a person has to reject a creation because they disagree with the personal values of the creator. While I certainly do respect peoples' commitment to doing that, it has always seemed to be something that I was able to hold separate. I won't support businesses that are vocally homophobic or things like that, but if a writer or musician or whatever were to be 'exposed' as a bigot, in most cases I've always been able to ignore it so as to be able to engage their work.
I know that this is a really 'unpopular' way to be, not automatically rejecting things because they were made by someone who is socially or morally lacking. Maybe it's the English degrees, and I've just learned how to separate the writer from the work so that I don't HAVE to see their personal views in every thing, despite knowing that they are there.

tl;dr: "ZOMG you would read somethign by racist and not throw it away becasue racism is bad???????"

Yes, I would and I have. But if you choose not to, I respect that and can understand why you would do so.


High five, sir.

In the now dead Manly Mans-thread we had a similar discussion going on a while back about Chuck Norris. Your post kinda reminds me of that. For what it's worth, I agree with you. It's hard work only surrounding yourself with media made by people you fully agree with produced. My opinion of the creator of a product doesn't matter, he or she is free to say and do whatever. It's about the product.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Ironhidensh » Thu May 28, 2015 11:38 am

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The other problem is with "immoral" being such a subjective term. Most people will disagree on what's wrong or right. There is also a trend of judging people for partaking of something you disagree with. If a person doesn't want to read Ender's Game because of Card's views, that's awesome. I haven't read the rest of the series because of that. I also won't judge somebody who has, or wants to.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Thu May 28, 2015 5:29 pm

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Dagon wrote:I'm sure I'll get flamed for not going along with everyone here, but I don't think a person has to reject a creation because they disagree with the personal values of the creator. While I certainly do respect peoples' commitment to doing that, it has always seemed to be something that I was able to hold separate. I won't support businesses that are vocally homophobic or things like that, but if a writer or musician or whatever were to be 'exposed' as a bigot, in most cases I've always been able to ignore it so as to be able to engage their work.
I know that this is a really 'unpopular' way to be, not automatically rejecting things because they were made by someone who is socially or morally lacking. Maybe it's the English degrees, and I've just learned how to separate the writer from the work so that I don't HAVE to see their personal views in every thing, despite knowing that they are there.

tl;dr: "ZOMG you would read somethign by racist and not throw it away becasue racism is bad???????"

Yes, I would and I have. But if you choose not to, I respect that and can understand why you would do so.


I think it's a very case-by-case thing. It really depends on what subject a particular person feels strongly about. If you happen to be of a particular ethnicity that the maker of a certain product is accused of insulting, naturally you'd be adverse to whatever he sells.

Case in point, parents and people with very young little brothers and sisters would feel more strongly about MJ's alleged pedophilia than perhaps person with no kids or prepubescent siblings. While the alleged crime itself he's accused of is heinous regardless, the degree of bias that compels you to boycott his music varies person-by-person.

Personally, I'm not about to throw away my MJ CD's any time soon, but I refuse to have anything to do with any company or individual with racist leanings or affiliations.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Blast Cannon » Sat May 30, 2015 12:01 pm

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I read the first page and got bored of all the posturing, can somebody give me a TL;DR summary of the following three?
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Shadowman » Sat May 30, 2015 12:05 pm

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Blast Cannon wrote:I read the first page and got bored of all the posturing, can somebody give me a TL;DR summary of the following three?


Sly, wrote a book, wants criticisms, even though by his own admission he doesn't care what we mortals think. Also, he has only the faintest idea of how he's going to handle publishing and distribution, planning to sell it as an e-book and "get it out there" and also is in this purely for the money. Also he's a massive douche and fails to realize how it's going to impact how people view his work.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Blast Cannon » Sat May 30, 2015 12:17 pm

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Shadowman wrote:
Blast Cannon wrote:I read the first page and got bored of all the posturing, can somebody give me a TL;DR summary of the following three?


Sly, wrote a book, wants criticisms, even though by his own admission he doesn't care what we mortals think. Also, he has only the faintest idea of how he's going to handle publishing and distribution, planning to sell it as an e-book and "get it out there" and also is in this purely for the money. Also he's a massive douche and fails to realize how it's going to impact how people view his work.


I'm glad I didn't waste my time then.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SlyTF1 » Sat May 30, 2015 1:30 pm

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Shadowman wrote:
Blast Cannon wrote:I read the first page and got bored of all the posturing, can somebody give me a TL;DR summary of the following three?


Sly, wrote a book, wants criticisms, even though by his own admission he doesn't care what we mortals think. Also, he has only the faintest idea of how he's going to handle publishing and distribution, planning to sell it as an e-book and "get it out there" and also is in this purely for the money. Also he's a massive douche and fails to realize how it's going to impact how people view his work.


I do have an idea, that doesn't mean I have to tell you about it.

Plus, as I've said, the book is marketed towards "mortals." Therefore, in this instance, I do care.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Burn » Sat May 30, 2015 3:20 pm

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Have you considered asking the advice from others who have done this before?

There are at least two published authors on this website alone.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Shadowman » Sat May 30, 2015 4:48 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:I do have an idea, that doesn't mean I have to tell you about it.


"I totally know what it is, I just don't want to tell you about it!" Never heard that one before...
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sat May 30, 2015 6:08 pm

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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SlyTF1 » Sat May 30, 2015 10:49 pm

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Burn wrote:Have you considered asking the advice from others who have done this before?

There are at least two published authors on this website alone.


I've tried, but I can't find any.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Burn » Sat May 30, 2015 10:54 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:
Burn wrote:Have you considered asking the advice from others who have done this before?

There are at least two published authors on this website alone.


I've tried, but I can't find any.


Me,Grimlock! and Counterpunch.

I believe Va'al may be able to help with editing as well. He's some fancy smancy University educated literature person thingy.

Not that you'll actually listen to any advice given to you. >:oP
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sat May 30, 2015 11:49 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:
Burn wrote:Have you considered asking the advice from others who have done this before?

There are at least two published authors on this website alone.


I've tried, but I can't find any.


What about posting it for critiques in an actual writing forum, or joining a writer's workshop? There are plenty of aspiring writers like you out there who are willing to exchange critiques, as long as you're willing to return the favor.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Me, Grimlock! » Sun May 31, 2015 12:22 am

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SOMEONE DOTH SPOKETH MY NAME!!! I AWAKEN FROM MY SLUMBER!!!

Just kidding.

Okay, from the previous five pages, I gather, SyTF1, you've written either a collection of short stories you want people to read or a single short story that showcases the rest of the collection? Do I have that right? And this particular short story--which is...18,000 words, if I remember out of the whole five pages of this thread--is technically a novella or a novelette, depending on where you go for your answer.

So to address some of the stuff going on in this thread--and take this with a grain of salt cuz a lot of this is just one man's opinion, though I've got a fair amount of logic and experience going into this response:

SlyTF1, you want to be self-published. First of all, kudos, cuz it's hard. Really hard. Self-publishing is generally the trend nowadays, but the problem is that 99% of the world doesn't know how to string together a sentence to save their lives. It's all OMG ROLF Internet speak nowadays, which, hey, is great for me because it weeds out the competition. A lot of self-published authors are self-published because no agent or publisher will touch them, mostly because of the Internet speak. (Internet speak is to prose the same as valley girl speak is to conversation.)

That means if you want to set yourself above the rest, you need to know every single thing you can about the English language. Otherwise, you look like--guess what?--a self-published author, which still has a great big stigma attached to it because of the Internet speak. You want to showcase your talent. You have to use perfect English everywhere you go, Seibertron.com included, or else no one is going to want to read what you've got, even if the story itself is absolutely perfect. You're your own publicist, and even a single "their vs. there" mistake could cost you a reader, or a publisher (since publishers know how to Google you).

And learn your craft. Learn the three-act structure, what keeps a reader enticed, what suspense is, how to create a character, etc. This is the reason why, of that 1% who can string together a sentence, 99% of them fail: they don't know how to craft a story.

Writing for money? Meh. I hate to sound like a cliche, but it's not a great way to start. Sure, it's a start, but what happens when the boredom outweighs the money. Your writing flattens. My reasons are because I love to write and I love to create. I love what I do. Proof? I have a series in which I'm seventeen stories deep, called In a Galaxy Far, Far Awry (shameless plug, not out yet, coming soon, I'll post a link when it does if you want to see it, blah blah blah), and that series has, so far, enjoyed a readership of two and a net profit of zero. And I'm just now starting to publish that series. I'm not in it for the money. I'd love to make money off it, sure, but only to quit my job and write for a living. (Also to afford that European vacation, but sssshhhhh.) What's your reason? Money won't get you through the day. It's the same soulless garbage you'd pick up from a musician who's in it only for the money.

You don't have a hook. You need a hook. It's called a logline. Mine is "Spaceballs vs. X-Men." My short blurb is "Nothing is more dangerous than a halfwit who controls all of crime." Every movie or book has it, and train yourself on how to write one by checking the blurbs on the backs of books or listening (not viewing) to movie trailers. It's as easy as that. But if you have no hook, what sets your evil government story above every other evil government story, including V for Vendetta, The Lego Movie, Resident Evil, Soylent Green, District 9, Beast Machines (yes, boo, hiss, I know), and countless other movies (or books, or what-have-yous) with an evil government or corporation bent on world domination? Why should I plunk down ten bucks on your story when I'm already a fan of Resident Evil or Ready Player One? It's part of your marketing. Show me why I should spend money on yours specifically. I spent money on a marketer who can write an enticing back blurb. If you know a guy, great. If you can educate yourself, even better. But get that hook.

Speaking of marketing. Ahem. Yeah, self-publishers are their own marketers. You gotta learn to market. Have a plan. Budget for it. What do I do? Gotta admit my "Spaceballs vs. X-Men" series is my first foray into self-publishing so I'm kind of learning the ropes. I've got a few schemes, but they all involve hiring a publicist. So you have to have some spare money or really educate yourself on what you're doing. Facebook and Twitter are steps, but they're not the end. I'll get back to you when I've got this one figured out.

And finally, should I like the personality or beliefs of the author, actor, director, etc. whose stuff I'm entertaining myself with? Maybe or maybe not. I don't know. It's up to each person. My general way of thinking is I'll more than likely watch a movie where the star is someone I could see myself hanging out with. I think I'd get along with Samuel L. Jackson, Chris Evans, Jack Black and Kyle Gass, Seth Rogen, Simon Pegg, and a slew of others. Even Tom Cruise, for all his crazy assness, went up a couple of notches in my estimation when I found out he's saved some lives. Actual human lives. (I still watch the M:I movies for Ving Rhames, though.) So go figure. But I'm more likely to enjoy their wares. These people shouldn't have any consequence on if I enjoy a movie if that movie itself is good, but I'm a stupid human and this is one of my stupid human tricks. Oprah Winfrey hasn't done anything wrong per se, but I can't stand anything with her name on it because I find her preachy and artificial. So anything off the Oprah Network is an instant miss for me, even if she doesn't appear in something or wrote the articles in her magazine.

But here's the final word. Do I want to check over your stuff? Sure. Send it over to stevegershwin at hotmail dot com (my spam address). But never fall into the trap of thinking something is perfect. That's a bad place to be. And if you want me to post the feedback here, I'll be more than happy to.
Last edited by Me, Grimlock! on Sun May 31, 2015 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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