Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Have to agree. The separate robot with the stunticons just stuck on as padding from several third party Menasors was never something I liked.

I like my combiners to actually need to be combined to have a functional combined mode. Having an independent body where the cars just tack on kind of defeats the purpose of the combiner. And yes I know that's how it was shown in the cartoon many times, but I chalk that up to animation liberties.

If this new Menasor does this, I'll likely skip it.

Welp, there goes my enthusiasm for the team. I'll stick with my upgraded CW G2 set.

I really hope that Menasor at least has an optional roller buddy for his chest. I never liked the cartoon's chest design, and while I was hoping that Menasor would be more convince less super robot, I'm still interested in getting every version they pump out Personally I'm hoping for G2 at least, and my dream would be an SG Menasor with colors based on the Masquerade Autobots just cause I think that'd be a neat reference point for their colors to come from. Only issue might be Motormaster being Optimus colors and causing a lot of confusion for the non-fan parents buying him for their kids

For the naysayers who don’t believe Legacy Menasor is a proper combiner, why. Is Energon Optimus Prime all that different? I imagine that the Motormaster component won’t really look like a complete robot. It’ll be a torso and head with spindly “skeleton” arms and legs. It’ll look terrible on its own. The rest of the Stunticons will be the “meat” of the arms and legs of Menasor. Similarly, Energon Optimus Prime is a chucky robot torso with disproportionately skinny and short arms and legs that you fill out with transformable vehicle drones. Is he NOT a combiner? Menasor doesn’t have drones, he’s got arms and legs with independent robot and vehicle modes. Plus, Menasor requires the minds of all five Stunticons to really function, regardless of how they all physically come together.

Wolfman Jake wrote:For the naysayers who don’t believe Legacy Menasor is a proper combiner, why. Is Energon Optimus Prime all that different? I imagine that the Motormaster component won’t really look like a complete robot. It’ll be a torso and head with spindly “skeleton” arms and legs. It’ll look terrible on its own. The rest of the Stunticons will be the “meat” of the arms and legs of Menasor. Similarly, Energon Optimus Prime is a chucky robot torso with disproportionately skinny and short arms and legs that you fill out with transformable vehicle drones. Is he NOT a combiner? Menasor doesn’t have drones, he’s got arms and legs with independent robot and vehicle modes. Plus, Menasor requires the minds of all five Stunticons to really function, regardless of how they all physically come together.

1. Energon Optimus Prime actually needs the drones for his arms and legs. He doesn't have arms and legs in combined mode without them at all. He has connectors like the CW combiners. The drones actually form the arms / hands and feet for the combiner. They are required.

2. The Menasor inner robot by definition needs to be functional on its own to work. i.e the Stunticons apparently will provide nothing to the combined mode outside of decoration. Nothing structural really., unless like you say the inner robot is a super spindly skeletal structure, but we don't know this yet. Since all we have seen is Dragstrip, and he comes with nothing for the combined mode, and has no actual combiner bits on his back, the Menasor inner robot needs to be self contained already for that to work. I personally do not really like that approach.

Overcracker wrote:1. Energon Optimus Prime actually needs the drones for his arms and legs. He doesn't have arms and legs in combined mode without them at all. He has connectors like the CW combiners. The drones actually form the arms / hands and feet for the combiner. They are required.

2. The Menasor inner robot by definition needs to be functional on its own to work. i.e the Stunticons apparently will provide nothing to the combined mode outside of decoration. Nothing structural really., unless like you say the inner robot is a super spindly skeletal structure, but we don't know this yet. Since all we have seen is Dragstrip, and he comes with nothing for the combined mode, and has no actual combiner bits on his back, the Menasor inner robot needs to be self contained already for that to work. I personally do not really like that approach.

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Energon Optimus Prime may not be the best parallel. I must be misremembering how that toy worked. However, with Legacy Menasor, no matter if you want to call torso mode Motormaster with arms and legs its own complete robot, with the other Stunticons being merely “decoration,” you’re still neglecting that they add additional structure, mass, form, and perhaps function to the combined mode, and ignoring the fact that all of their minds still need to merge together to form Menasor, as opposed to just weird limbs “Super Mode” Motormaster. Just because you don’t like the method of combination doesn’t mean it’s not a combiner.

Overcracker wrote:Nothing structural really., unless like you say the inner robot is a super spindly skeletal structure, but we don't know this yet.

Not sure about the arms but it seems the legs are a spindly skeletal structure which is filled in with the stunticon meat.

Also, as soon as this was announced to be a commander class, there was no other way this wasn't gonna be the result. I guess we needed a "hot tip" for us to finally have this discussion.

@ZWolfman jake, I think a better example would be the sixtrain combiner and all those other smaller combiners which do have a skeletal component what other stuff latches on. Not a perfect example, but a better example than Energon Optimus, which "transforms" the same way a Power Ranger Megazord does.



While I thought that was pretty half assed for Six Train, I admit I would be entirely forgiving if those skeletal combiner framing components transformed into something, which is the case here.

I think you mean Wolfman Jake

Also you could reconfigure six trains kibble into weapons

Though it's not as cool as the little spaceship that Sixbuilder/Sixturbo/etc had mind.

ZeroWolf wrote: weapons

lololol

The fact that the leakers made a point of saying that Menasor does NOT look clean like the cartoon gives me pause. I hope the frame is made of sturdy plastic or there's a strong possibility of breakage.

As someone who has recently obtained all but one of the original 6-Team Micromaster Combiners, I always found them a bit unusual. It is impossible to form any part of the combiner without the extra parts. Also the 6th member just sitting in the back (not really needed) always seemed odd to me. True the parts all coming together to make their own separate vehicle was a neat little concept.

Stylistically, everyone has their own preferences. I'm not sure if one is "better" than the other. I think the original LioKaiser is a rare example of a fully self contained combiner, but then there are limitations with the feet and hands. CW/UW Devastator I like concept-wise over the original in that it removes one of the vital connector pieces from the hips/legs, and integrated the head into Hook. But you still had the hands as separate accessories, an awesome attempt to be sure. Then all the CW/UW/PotP were really good, even with the separate hands/feet. The major complaint was the weakness of the connection ratchets themselves. How they combine is great, if only there was a way to make them stronger so the combiners would be more stable.

ill wait to see what it looks like but at this stage im starting to wonder if someone high up just doesnt LIKE menasor !



i mean its just plain WEIRD to say the only official hasbro/takara issue of him to look good is the original G1 ONE !

CW/UW did such a good job on pretty much everyone else it just kinda stands out.

still a combiner is NOT something i was expecting from this line so at least he's SOMETHING.

As others have said i'dve prefered a proper monstructor. maybe with the pretenders being touched on again there'll be hope down the line.

william-james88 wrote:

Overcracker wrote:Nothing structural really., unless like you say the inner robot is a super spindly skeletal structure, but we don't know this yet.

Not sure about the arms but it seems the legs are a spindly skeletal structure which is filled in with the stunticon meat.

Also, as soon as this was announced to be a commander class, there was no other way this wasn't gonna be the result. I guess we needed a "hot tip" for us to finally have this discussion.

@ZWolfman jake, I think a better example would be the sixtrain combiner and all those other smaller combiners which do have a skeletal component what other stuff latches on. Not a perfect example, but a better example than Energon Optimus, which "transforms" the same way a Power Ranger Megazord does.



While I thought that was pretty half assed for Six Train, I admit I would be entirely forgiving if those skeletal combiner framing components transformed into something, which is the case here.

Its closer, but even with the 6-guys combiners you needed the actual team members to complete them. They formed the actual arms and lower legs. without them you have a torso that ends at the knees and shoulders and then have hands and feet just sitting there unconnected.

I think the main issue with this, is you'll end up with a somewhat complete robot standing on its own without any team members attached (maybe only Motromaster).

See DX9's Capone:


I still have my doubts that stunticons will provide any structure to it really.

o.supreme wrote:As someone who has recently obtained all but one of the original 6-Team Micromaster Combiners, I always found them a bit unusual. It is impossible to form any part of the combiner without the extra parts. Also the 6th member just sitting in the back (not really needed) always seemed odd to me. True the parts all coming together to make their own separate vehicle was a neat little concept.

Stylistically, everyone has their own preferences. I'm not sure if one is "better" than the other. I think the original LioKaiser is a rare example of a fully self contained combiner, but then there are limitations with the feet and hands. CW/UW Devastator I like concept-wise over the original in that it removes one of the vital connector pieces from the hips/legs, and integrated the head into Hook. But you still had the hands as separate accessories, an awesome attempt to be sure. Then all the CW/UW/PotP were really good, even with the separate hands/feet. The major complaint was the weakness of the connection ratchets themselves. How they combine is great, if only there was a way to make them stronger so the combiners would be more stable.

O/T but I would love a Core class Devastator that could be redecoed into Sixbuilder, even though at least one of them would be very off-model.

Well, the rumors about Menasor are on par with what I believed it would be. As for "cartoon smoothness", duh, of course this won't be a 600$ MP.

I'm looking forward to it.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:The fact that the leakers made a point of saying that Menasor does NOT look clean like the cartoon gives me pause. I hope the frame is made of sturdy plastic or there's a strong possibility of breakage.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on the “doesn’t look smooth/clean like the cartoon” comment. We don’t really know what that means to the leaker who said it. It could just be that there is added detailing in the molds, or paint applications, or bits of kibble that don’t make it a 100% match to the G1 cartoon, it it will still be very close, much more so than the Combiner Wars/Unite Warriors version.

So we are all in agreement. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't buy it.

But I'm 100% sure the people still saying this set is a combiner are the ones who have already spent hundreds on KOs that work the same way.

Can't blame Hasbro, though. If there's 1 thing KO companies are good for, its highlighting what the more ravenous fans will whale for. That's how MP-44 happened. Just a mess of tiny hinges you finagled into the shape of a robot or a truck without any clever or intuitive engineering. If people paid 200-300 for a KO, then they'd pay 400-500 for the real deal that included a trailer.

Enjoy your shelves, be they Menasor or a Deformation Captain that looks exactly like Menasor but legally isn't. Wussy Hasbro won't even redo Magnaboss or Tripredicus...

Mistaken_Table wrote:So we are all in agreement. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't buy it.

But I'm 100% sure the people still saying this set is a combiner are the ones who have already spent hundreds on KOs that work the same way.

Can't blame Hasbro, though. If there's 1 thing KO companies are good for, its highlighting what the more ravenous fans will whale for. That's how MP-44 happened. Just a mess of tiny hinges you finagled into the shape of a robot or a truck without any clever or intuitive engineering. If people paid 200-300 for a KO, then they'd pay 400-500 for the real deal that included a trailer.

Enjoy your shelves, be they Menasor or a Deformation Captain that looks exactly like Menasor but legally isn't. Wussy Hasbro won't even redo Magnaboss or Tripredicus...

Try not to confuse knock-off and third party. The first take an original Hasbro/Takara toy, then either do a straight copy, of remake it with minor or major modifications. The second create their own original molds from scratch inspired by Hasbro/Takara characters.

Everyone involved are in some symbiotic relationship, taking ideas from each others. Yes, even the official Hasbro / Takara get ideas from 3P originals.

And honestly, it's a good thing. It makes the brand grow.

I don't understand - these comments appears elsewhere. Why is it not possible to give credit to the original source?

rikkomba wrote:I don't understand - these comments appears elswhwere. Why is it not possible to give credit to the original source?

Because the leakers have asked not to be named in News Posts so that their friends are less likely to be in trouble career wise

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

rikkomba wrote:I don't understand - these comments appears elsewhere. Why is it not possible to give credit to the original source?

Because the leakers have asked not to be named in News Posts so that their friends are less likely to be in trouble career wise

Yup, we've received multiple requests not to name names as it were, so with all due respect to the leakers, we don't.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Mistaken_Table wrote:So we are all in agreement. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't buy it.

But I'm 100% sure the people still saying this set is a combiner are the ones who have already spent hundreds on KOs that work the same way.

Can't blame Hasbro, though. If there's 1 thing KO companies are good for, its highlighting what the more ravenous fans will whale for. That's how MP-44 happened. Just a mess of tiny hinges you finagled into the shape of a robot or a truck without any clever or intuitive engineering. If people paid 200-300 for a KO, then they'd pay 400-500 for the real deal that included a trailer.

Enjoy your shelves, be they Menasor or a Deformation Captain that looks exactly like Menasor but legally isn't. Wussy Hasbro won't even redo Magnaboss or Tripredicus...

Try not to confuse knock-off and third party. The first take an original Hasbro/Takara toy, then either do a straight copy, of remake it with minor or major modifications. The second create their own original molds from scratch inspired by Hasbro/Takara characters.

Everyone involved are in some symbiotic relationship, taking ideas from each others. Yes, even the official Hasbro / Takara get ideas from 3P originals.

And honestly, it's a good thing. It makes the brand grow.

Try not to confuse 3rd party and KO, actually. Examples of 3rd party are licensed products made by external companies like ThreeZero, Flame Toys, Furai and those Micro Machines Transformers from the mid-2000's.

KOs are figures made to fool the consumer into thinking they're buying the real thing. Just because you're buying the KOs on purpose doesn't make them any more justified of a purchase. You bought Deformation Hero Leader because he looks exactly like Optimus Prime. You even have to put a separately purchased faction logo on it so it looks more like the real thing on your shelf.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:The fact that the leakers made a point of saying that Menasor does NOT look clean like the cartoon gives me pause. I hope the frame is made of sturdy plastic or there's a strong possibility of breakage.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on the “doesn’t look smooth/clean like the cartoon” comment. We don’t really know what that means to the leaker who said it. It could just be that there is added detailing in the molds, or paint applications, or bits of kibble that don’t make it a 100% match to the G1 cartoon, it it will still be very close, much more so than the Combiner Wars/Unite Warriors version.

Thats exactly what they mean. He will still be very G1 (thats the whole point of this different way to deal with a combiner) he jyst wint have crazy smooth surfaces like the cartoon image in the article.

Sounds like he'll be as G1 as Siege Shockwave and Astrotrain

Mistaken_Table wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Mistaken_Table wrote:So we are all in agreement. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't buy it.

But I'm 100% sure the people still saying this set is a combiner are the ones who have already spent hundreds on KOs that work the same way.

Can't blame Hasbro, though. If there's 1 thing KO companies are good for, its highlighting what the more ravenous fans will whale for. That's how MP-44 happened. Just a mess of tiny hinges you finagled into the shape of a robot or a truck without any clever or intuitive engineering. If people paid 200-300 for a KO, then they'd pay 400-500 for the real deal that included a trailer.

Enjoy your shelves, be they Menasor or a Deformation Captain that looks exactly like Menasor but legally isn't. Wussy Hasbro won't even redo Magnaboss or Tripredicus...

Try not to confuse knock-off and third party. The first take an original Hasbro/Takara toy, then either do a straight copy, of remake it with minor or major modifications. The second create their own original molds from scratch inspired by Hasbro/Takara characters.

Everyone involved are in some symbiotic relationship, taking ideas from each others. Yes, even the official Hasbro / Takara get ideas from 3P originals.

And honestly, it's a good thing. It makes the brand grow.

Try not to confuse 3rd party and KO, actually. Examples of 3rd party are licensed products made by external companies like ThreeZero, Flame Toys, Furai and those Micro Machines Transformers from the mid-2000's.

KOs are figures made to fool the consumer into thinking they're buying the real thing. Just because you're buying the KOs on purpose doesn't make them any more justified of a purchase. You bought Deformation Hero Leader because he looks exactly like Optimus Prime. You even have to put a separately purchased faction logo on it so it looks more like the real thing on your shelf.

In over 10 years of Transformers collecting and as a member of this forum, it's the first time I ever saw someone calling an OFFICIAL and LICENSED product made by another company other than Hasbro a "Third Party" thing, plus in one fell swoop throw everything else under the "K.O" label, whenever they are OG designs or not.

You are either completely new to the collecting game, or you never really dabble in 3P collecting. Please explore this forum and create a thread to double-check your notions over THERE. You might be surprised.

Do so before we further get off topic here.