Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[TFfan1]

I want to make something clear here, I am not saying I am for or against any of what I mentioned, I just wanted to explain the current reality as a parent, since it was brought up. Parents do not have a choice, this is the new norm. The only way to change that is through legislation by denying certain couples the right to be parents or through segregation. Though, honestly, I don't think there's anyway the genie can be put back in the lamp; case in point, here's a shot of the kids' book section at my local TJMaxx store where I bring my kids to shop (and sometimes find TF toys).

The fact that you said that parents have "no choice" in their children being aware that people who don't live the way do existing is pretty telling about what you're against. Sorry, but people exist, and your children having fellow students whose parents are gay or trans doesn't take anything away from you.

What about trans or non-binary kids who grow up in insular communities, and never get to see or meet anyone who experiences the same thing they do? How lonely and alienating that must be, compared to seeing someone like you in your favorite kids show.

[Dragon_Lord]

I never personally understood the strong desire to identify with any fictional character. Sure I have my favorites, but I was never looking for any individual in television or movies thanking "Yeah THAT's ME", but apparently it is common.

Same here. I live in the Caribbean and never saw this behavior in the children of my generation or people from my same age group around other countries in Latin America. Sure, we all had our favorite characters, but the attitude was more of "I want to be like him" aspiring to be like the character you like rather that "I like him because that's me". Like a role model, so to speak.


I already replied to this, but apparently it got lost in the moderation limbo...

It's just that I've been burned several times by a news post that talk about a certain social issue, then we respond to that specific social issue that was reported in the news post, brought by a news staff, then a certain mod comes along, have an emotional freak out, then point a gun to our head saying "SHUT UP, OR ELSE."

To be fair, from what I've seen, here in Seibertron at the very least there's a more nuance approach about commenting this type stuff than I've seen in some other forums.

[william-james88]

I want to make something clear here, I am not saying I am for or against any of what I mentioned, I just wanted to explain the current reality as a parent, since it was brought up. Parents do not have a choice, this is the new norm. The only way to change that is through legislation by denying certain couples the right to be parents or through segregation. Though, honestly, I don't think there's anyway the genie can be put back in the lamp; case in point, here's a shot of the kids' book section at my local TJMaxx store where I bring my kids to shop (and sometimes find TF toys).

The fact that you said that parents have "no choice" in their children being aware that people who don't live the way do existing is pretty telling about what you're against. Sorry, but people exist, and your children having fellow students whose parents are gay or trans doesn't take anything away from you.

What about trans or non-binary kids who grow up in insular communities, and never get to see or meet anyone who experiences the same thing they do? How lonely and alienating that must be, compared to seeing someone like you in your favorite kids show.

I did not say what I am personally for or against at all, and you do not know me, you do not know what kind of relationship I am in, so please do not put words in my mouth. If I wrote something in a way that you feel was disrespectful, please know that english is my second language, I meant no ill will towards anyone.
My goal was to answer someone who was using "parent's choice" as a factor in the argument currently going on, and gave examples to illustrate the paradigm shift. Nothing more, nothing less. I never gave my own opinion on the matter. Parent's choice to let their kids know about these topics is not an argument in this scenario since it does not exist. As you stated, these people exist, and kids will know of their existence despite whatever their parents want them to know or not know.

If you want to know my personal opinion, you can reach out to me via private message as I feel that is the better spot for that.

Regarding this show itself, I have no issue with it. I just want good transformers toys of these characters. I do find it interesting though that it took a media presence to increase the level of interaction on this specific topic, when it's a transformers site and the episode has been around for months. I get that people over 60 are just talking about this now, but why wasn't this discussion happening months ago here?

[Dr. Caelus]

I get that people over 60 are just talking about this now, but why wasn't this discussion happening months ago here?

It did. (Edit: Go back to p.20 of this thread.)

Some of the details were different and maybe the intensity was different. Nightshade was kind of a useless character starting out, so I for one was rather disappointed by their inclusion. Since then, they've turned out to be awesome, so now there's admittedly an investment that was lacking before.

[Sabrblade]

Nightshade hadn't really done anything noteworthy in the show back when the three new Terrans first appeared in the show. It wasn't until the second batch of episodes dropped that all three finally got some due attention in the spotlight to really make the three of them stand out on their own as individuals and become as well-liked as they are now.

(Though, Hashtag's name is still very dated-on-arrival)

[Jelze Bunnycat]

So many things I wanna say... Honestly, less about the article itself and more about the fallout or how people are responding to it.

Looking through the Twitter thread... Responses are really all over the place. To me, the scariest ones would have to be from the religious folk, from the distrustful of the "untraditional" people, from the prejudiced, from the paranoid of malicious intent, and from the ignorant ("Putting 'trans' in Transformers"). I know, not mutually exclusive...

Down to the core, multimedia is nothing more than a catalyst, it's to the people to respond to it however they see fit... and taking responsibility for the actions they do take. That's all I'm gonna say

It is worth noting that US elections are coming up next year...

[Dr. Caelus]

(Though, Hashtag's name is still very dated-on-arrival)

At least it doesn't offend British people like so many TF names seem to.

And it's not something like "Carbombya".

Or "Windbreaker".

[Sabrblade]

(Though, Hashtag's name is still very dated-on-arrival)

At least it doesn't offend British people like so many TF names seem to.

And it's not something like "Carbombya".

Or "Windbreaker".

Had it been me who named her, I'd have give her a name that Hasbro has already had trademarked before for a female Transformer, one that's not well-known and thus could have been made all her own, and one that would have still fit perfectly with her Internet abilities without being too on the nose: "Cyberwarp".

[Dr. Caelus]

(Though, Hashtag's name is still very dated-on-arrival)

At least it doesn't offend British people like so many TF names seem to.

And it's not something like "Carbombya".

Or "Windbreaker".

Had it been me who named her, I'd have give her a name that Hasbro has already had trademarked before for a female Transformer, one that's not well-known and thus could have been made all her own, and one that would have still fit perfectly with her Internet abilities without being too on the nose: "Cyberwarp".

They already have Skywarp in the show, and like to reserve partial name reuse for upgraded forms.

"Greenlight" would have been good if you thought of it in reference to a power symbol or a wifi symbol, And Elita-1 could have started building her gang.

[Sabrblade]

and like to reserve partial name reuse for upgraded forms.

Says who?

[Dr. Caelus]

and like to reserve partial name reuse for upgraded forms.

Says who?

Don't they though?

Megatron to Galvatron
Hot Rod to Rodimus Prime
Ultra Magnus to Ultra Mammoth
Optimus Primal to Optimal Optimus
Starscream to Hellscream

I should have said, 'and clones' (e.g., Optimus Minor, Nemesis Prime, Megaplex, Soundblaster) 'or combiners (e.g., Galvatronus, Optimus Maximus)

They generally try to avoid unrelated characters having similar names in close proximity. You don't often see characters like Shadowstriker and Shadowstrip, Inferno and Twinferno, Thundercracker and Thunderwing, etc. around at the same time.

[Flashwave]

I don't know who she is, but she is late.

Not only has our own toxic side of the Fandom already made this crack, but we have had time to make memes about the toxic fans and move on.

[Sabrblade]

and like to reserve partial name reuse for upgraded forms.

Says who?

Don't they though?

...

They generally try to avoid unrelated characters having similar names in close proximity. You don't often see characters like Shadowstriker and Shadowstrip, Inferno and Twinferno, Thundercracker and Thunderwing, etc. around at the same time.

We just had the Cyberverse cartoon with both Acid Storm and Nova Storm in it as separate characters who worked together.

Not to mention the Siege three-pack that had both of them (well, their G1 versions) and Ion Storm packed together.

And all three of whom are also separate characters from Sunstorm.

[Dr. Caelus]

and like to reserve partial name reuse for upgraded forms.

Says who?

Don't they though?

We just had the Cyberverse carton with both Acid Storm and Nova Storm in it as separate characters who worked together. Not to mention the Siege three-pack that had both of them and Ion Storm in it.

Those are related characters. Close allies who share the same body and are part of the same subgroup, the "Rainmakers", which references their unifying names.

[Sabrblade]

and like to reserve partial name reuse for upgraded forms.

Says who?

Don't they though?

We just had the Cyberverse carton with both Acid Storm and Nova Storm in it as separate characters who worked together. Not to mention the Siege three-pack that had both of them and Ion Storm in it.

Those are related characters. Close allies who share the same body and are part of the same subgroup, the "Rainmakers", which references their unifying names.

You can't keep making up rules to support you're argument as you go along.

You want two characters with shared partial names who have no relation to each other but have still coexisted and interacted with each other in the same work? Fine. Megatron and Tigatron from Beast Wars. By your own previous example of "Megatron to Galvatron", the name "Tigatron" ought to refer to a tiger-themed upgraded version of "Megatron", but it does not.

Besides, EarthSpark Skywarp is not a main character, and looks nothing like Hashtag or vice versa. There would be no confusion between the two.

[DeathReviews]

:roll: Major Rant incoming (Since We decided we had to make a news article that clearly talks about politics, don't be surprised that I talk about politics. )

You know, I generally watch/play/read media to ESCAPE the real-world/overly political side of things. I watched up to maybe episode 4 of Earthspark (a show which I wasn't entirely enjoying to be honest) before I said I'd take a break. Found out a while later that Nightshade fell into the political vat, and I decided the show wasn't worth my time. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it in the show about how it "makes sense", because it's the year 2023, and I know the real-world reason why it's being done. Of course adding identity- politics into a show which, let's be honest, the target demographic being children, I find to be underhanded. It's not just Transformers either; many cartoons, comics, games, movies, etc. of ESTABLISHED IPS have more or less been up-ended for "modern" audiences, and said IPs (and the fans that made them what they are) are the ones that suffer in quality and/or revenue. I sure most will see it as innocent and don't see the harm in a sentient robot referring to himself as "they" (even though grammatically it's disingenuous), but it more or less tells kids that this type of behavior is acceptable. I know a lot of parents who are just tired of having identity politics entrenched in their kids' entertainment (even education), and even adults who steer clear of media with it now.

In the end, all I'll say, is keep identity-politics out of entertainment.

Also, I would respectfully request that we refrain from bringing up topics like this again in the future, since I know people on both sides can be very "passionate" about their views, and civil discussions aren't always on the minds of most who wander on the forums.

Months ago, the promo articles had the show writers/producers saying that the purpose of Earthspark was 'to re-define what it meant to be a family'. That was when I suspected it was going to be sub-par, because they were investing their energy into a desire to participate in social restructuring, rather than on quality storytelling.

I'm sure it's not a bad series. But it hasn't been a quantum leap of awesomeness. There was never any huge groundswell from fans of the Transformers franchise, begging Hollywood to use the brand as a puppet to 'redefine the family', or to re-invent grammar so that pronouns would be subject to individual interpretation. Hollywood made a conscious decision to use this show to influence these issues (however gently) by telling viewers what they should want, instead of giving audiences what they actually want. And viewers will eventually show resentment for that kind of presumption, in the form of lower ratings and sales.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

and like to reserve partial name reuse for upgraded forms.

Says who?

Don't they though?

We just had the Cyberverse carton with both Acid Storm and Nova Storm in it as separate characters who worked together. Not to mention the Siege three-pack that had both of them and Ion Storm in it.

Those are related characters. Close allies who share the same body and are part of the same subgroup, the "Rainmakers", which references their unifying names.

You can't keep making up rules to support you're argument as you go along.

You want two characters with shared partial names who have no relation to each other but have still coexisted and interacted with each other in the same work? Fine. Megatron and Tigatron from Beast Wars. By your own previous example of "Megatron to Galvatron", the name "Tigatron" ought to refer to a tiger-themed upgraded version of "Megatron", but it does not.

The supposed rule going one way does not guarantee its validity going the other way.

[Sabrblade]

and like to reserve partial name reuse for upgraded forms.

Says who?

Don't they though?

We just had the Cyberverse carton with both Acid Storm and Nova Storm in it as separate characters who worked together. Not to mention the Siege three-pack that had both of them and Ion Storm in it.

Those are related characters. Close allies who share the same body and are part of the same subgroup, the "Rainmakers", which references their unifying names.

You can't keep making up rules to support you're argument as you go along.

You want two characters with shared partial names who have no relation to each other but have still coexisted and interacted with each other in the same work? Fine. Megatron and Tigatron from Beast Wars. By your own previous example of "Megatron to Galvatron", the name "Tigatron" ought to refer to a tiger-themed upgraded version of "Megatron", but it does not.

The supposed rule going one way does not guarantee its validity going the other way.

Another example: The Autobot Spychanger Ironhide and the Decepticon Commando Armorhide from Robots in Disguise 2001. The name "Armorhide" was even later used as an alternate name for Animated Ironhide when that series was brought over to Japan (due to Takara reassigning the "Ironhide" name to Animated Bulkhead instead).

[Dr. Caelus]

and like to reserve partial name reuse for upgraded forms.

Says who?

Don't they though?

We just had the Cyberverse carton with both Acid Storm and Nova Storm in it as separate characters who worked together. Not to mention the Siege three-pack that had both of them and Ion Storm in it.

Those are related characters. Close allies who share the same body and are part of the same subgroup, the "Rainmakers", which references their unifying names.

You can't keep making up rules to support you're argument as you go along.

You want two characters with shared partial names who have no relation to each other but have still coexisted and interacted with each other in the same work? Fine. Megatron and Tigatron from Beast Wars. By your own previous example of "Megatron to Galvatron", the name "Tigatron" ought to refer to a tiger-themed upgraded version of "Megatron", but it does not.

The supposed rule going one way does not guarantee its validity going the other way.

Megatron/Tigatron was a good example of an exception though.

[Sabrblade]

The Robots in Disguise 2015 toyline also had Shockdrive, who had nothing to do with Shockwave.

Oh! That brings to mind the most famous example of all: Shockwave and Soundwave! And Tidal Wave!

And then there's Hot Rod and Hot Shot. Also Hot Spot, Hot House, Hotlink, Hotwire, Hotspark, etc.

[Dr. Caelus]

The Robots in Disguise 2015 toyline also had Shockdrive, who had nothing to do with Shockwave.

Oh! That brings to mind the most famous example of all: Shockwave and Soundwave! And Tidal Wave!

And then there's Hot Rod and Hot Shot. Also Hot Spot, Hot House, Hotlink, Hotwire, Hotspark, etc.

Shockwave/Soundwave were entrenched by tradition; they have seldom showed up alongside the newcomer, Tidalwave, and were kept apart for a long time, with Shockwave doing a long stint as Shockblast.

The others have also largely been kept apart on screen and on shelves.

[Sabrblade]

There's also Computron, who met Galvatron in his debut episode.

And the aforementioned Ironhide/Armorhide example I gave above (in case you missed it).

[-Kanrabat-]

About the pronoms thing, It's safe to say that it's either motivated by the ESG money, or it's simply corporate riding the coattail of the latest trendy algorithm.

I'll be wasting my time trying to explain why many have an "over the top" reaction for "such a little" thing. But I'll just say that cartoons for children should not try to impose nor try to "teach" the birds and the LGbeeTs. Leave that to the parents.

Also, drag queens are awesome and fun... in an ADULT ONLY venue for an ADULT ONLY public. They have no place in anything children related. What's next, a pole dancer / stripper in Dora the Explorer?
Children are very impressionable from when they are born until they are way in their teens. Too many questionable people are exploiting this for their own agenda and that's terrible.

I'm all for LGBT representation in media. But when they did sexually explicit shows for toddlers as if it's the most normal thing in the world, that's when the straw that broke the camel's back for many.

So that's why many LGBT people are sick and tired to be dragged into the mud by the crazies so they formed a group called GAYS AGAINST GROOMERS to fight back. But of course, they are vilified as "far right" by the usual suspects.

Anyway.
Let's keep the innocence of young children, shall we? And leave the adult stuff for adults.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

I'm all for LGBT representation in media. But when they did sexually explicit shows for toddlers as if it's the most normal thing in the world, that's when the straw that broke the camel's back for many.

Define "Sexually Explicit"

[Burn]

"I don't swear around my child because I don't want them to learn how to swear and curse"

Child promptly learns to swear and curse at school.

How much bubble wrap can you put your child in? At some point they WILL be exposed to all the things parents may try to "protect" them from.

I watched the episode in question, and I firmly believe it was handled in a good way. It was NOT forced, it was NOT shoved in everyone's faces, it was a simple discussion.

And if a child watches it and they don't understand, then they can ask their parents, and rather than being outraged, perhaps the parent should then do their **** job and explain it to them?

Seems to me a lot of this "outrage" is from people who are too **** lazy to do their own **** parenting and rely on the TV as a babysitter then get upset when the babysitter doesn't share their morals.