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[Bumblevivisector]

The whole planet and all the miserable sack of $hi7 people (which is everyone) on it need to be eliminated. Humanity needs a freaking reset.

Uh... that one right there, officer.

Bring it "officer". I live right to the west of the cesspool called New Orleans.
Locked and loaded with ZERO fu<&'s to give.

I thought you had kids???

I do, they and myself are included. This world is a cesspool and needs to be purged.

I had noticed your posts were getting weird a while back but I check in here so much less than I used to I didn't say anything. This is not a healthy attitude to have, and even if you're joking it's troubling that you think it's funny.

And yet, it's not entirely off-topic for this particular thread, sadly enough. Our whole cultural idea of a robot is an expression if misanthropy, artificial humans designed to improve on supposed "flaws", and the premise of Transformers flipped this, making robots sentient aliens superior to humanity in so many ways that our species is just a few billion dumb bugs by comparison, but in a way that ultimately taught kids about empathy for those different from themselves in a lot of stories.

"Time on Earth help us look down, see what we trample on" -Grimlock

That makes Transformers a great lens through which to analyze the meaning of human attributes like gender and associated pronouns, which there've been traces of since the beginning, when Bob Budianski wanted to make a few characters female in his first pass at the bios, but Hasbro said that would create confusion in a toyline targeted at boys. (Gobots did just what Bob originally intended, and that will forever stand as the major one-up they had on TF from the get-go) This later led to the moment in issue #53 where Cloudburst had to shoot the First One of Femax down by telling her his species has no gender. My interpretation was that Marvel-continuity TFs only use male pronouns as a result of picking up on a tendency to project male-ness onto anything humanoid but neuter and "clunky-looking", like robots and golems, and that it must be something inherent in Earth languages, as they had to have learned it in the middle of issue #1 before they even understood what organic life was! Now I know a lot of fans won't agree with my conclusion, but it makes you think for a moment about what gender even means, and those old stories weren't even intended to address LGBTQ or gender identity issues.

Cloudburst's statement of TF non-gender-identity has to be what forced Furman to write "Prime's Rib" to explain Arcee's origin. And though many despise that story, I find it gets better the more you overthink it. Of course the Autobots didn't really understand what humans actually wanted to see in a female member of their race, because even the ones who'd been interacting with humans for a decade hadn't really processed what it meant that humans just perceived them as male by default. Well, Skids probably did while he was shacking up with Charlene...

But misanthropy is misanthropy, and hatred of my own species for treating me like an alien or monster because of my neurotype was part of the reason I identified with sentient robots more than humans in the cartoons I watched in childhood. We all need to vent a cry of, "Let's stomp these creatures until we're knee-deep in pink slime!" once in a while. Skullcruncher knew that, and so does Cyber Bishop.

And so did Raksha, damn I miss her site.

But it's more important now to show how that can lead to making a friend, as Nightshade did. It'd be nice to hear some pundit point out that Earthspark has a more mature attitude toward war and its aftermath than most cartoons targeted at kids; someone in Vladamir Putin's bubble should recommend it to fearless leader.

"I'm a train they call the Cesspool of New Orleans,
"I'll be gone 5000 miles wh--"

[Sabrblade]

"I'm a train they call the Cesspool of New Orleans,
"I'll be gone 5000 miles wh--"

--en the day is done."

[TulioDude]

Someone said something bad of Transformers Cartoon on tv?
I don't think this will mater in the long run.
Nightshade is fine, if every time they only talked about pronouns that would get repetitive, but for now the writers are doing a good job of giving them more to do.
I would wait for to happen in the story before deciding how I feel about the character.

[Dr. Caelus]

Someone said something bad of Transformers Cartoon on tv?
I don't this will mater in the long run.
Nightshade is fine, if every time they only talked about pronouns that would get repetitive, but for now the writers are doing a good job of giving them more to do.
I would wait for to happen in the story before deciding how I feel about the character.

There's a transformers movie coming out in a few weeks with a lot of attention on it, including people decrying it as 'too woke' for not having enough white humans. Even though there's no relationship between Earthspark and the movie, that likely won't matter to the people who get upset about M&M's boots or how someone dresses while drinking 'beer'. The live action movie audiences definitely seem to trend more conservative than other Transformers fans, so a push to 'cancel' Transformers from that end could do a lot of damage to the brand, financially, and put a definite chill on inclusive writing, going forward.

[TulioDude]

As someone who lives outside the US, is Megyn Kelly popular? I haven't heard of her before.
I'm asking because it seens to just a story of the day thing.

[Cyber Bishop]

The whole planet and all the miserable sack of $hi7 people (which is everyone) on it need to be eliminated. Humanity needs a freaking reset.

Uh... that one right there, officer.

Bring it "officer". I live right to the west of the cesspool called New Orleans.
Locked and loaded with ZERO fu<&'s to give.

I thought you had kids???

I do, they and myself are included. This world is a cesspool and needs to be purged.

I had noticed your posts were getting weird a while back but I check in here so much less than I used to I didn't say anything. This is not a healthy attitude to have, and even if you're joking it's troubling that you think it's funny.

No joking at all, never claimed to be joking and dont think it is funny. Don't tell me about a fu<&ing healthy attitude in this $h1t society we live in. People are horrible plain and simple. Don't preach to me either.
And as far as my kids go, they are all grown adults and know how to handle themselves.

[Dr. Caelus]

As someone who lives outside the US, is Megyn Kelly popular? I haven't heard of her before.
I'm asking because it seens to just a story of the day thing.

She has 2.8 million twitter followers, which is larger than the viewership of Fox News was in February. More importantly, people who have more direct power/influence over American lives mine her content for talking points.

[Cyber Bishop]

people who have more direct power/influence

This is part of the problem with this crap society, sheep need "influencers". If you need to follow someone that is an influencer then you are completely useless as this is what social media has spiraled to, the people that want to push agendas use youtube/tiktok/etc.. and their influencers to further press issues to their followers.
Are the masses that stupid that they can't form an opinion on something unless their favorite social media star pushes it as well.

Since 2020 things have gotten progressively worse, attitudes towards one another have worsened, so many think they are entitled to their opinion whether or not it is anti vax, anti mask, pro vax, pro mask, pro life, pro choice, etc. somehow society became entitled even more to be complete straight up assholes.

Things like this are what soured me to be honest as I used to be a lot more friendlier but all the mobs "woke" and whatnot just get worse. these people need PAIN to set themselves straight since they don't respond to anything else. Pure naked force has solved more issues on this miserable planet than ANYTHING throughout the course of human history. Time to bring back the pain.

And for the record I have never played well with others, never will and when $hit goes south I'll be one of the ones that survives because I can/will and have to do whatever it takes to survive regardless who I have to take out on the way.

[Dr. Caelus]

The whole planet and all the miserable sack of $hi7 people (which is everyone) on it need to be eliminated. Humanity needs a freaking reset.

Uh... that one right there, officer.

Bring it "officer". I live right to the west of the cesspool called New Orleans.
Locked and loaded with ZERO fu<&'s to give.

I thought you had kids???

I do, they and myself are included. This world is a cesspool and needs to be purged.

I had noticed your posts were getting weird a while back but I check in here so much less than I used to I didn't say anything. This is not a healthy attitude to have, and even if you're joking it's troubling that you think it's funny.

No joking at all, never claimed to be joking and dont think it is funny. Don't tell me about a fu<&ing healthy attitude in this $h1t society we live in. People are horrible plain and simple. Don't preach to me either.

Well, I'm sorry you've had such a rough go of it, and there was a time I would have tried to help or offer some sort of supportive words, but I'm much older now and don't put as much stock in words.

My main concern is that, someone who publicly says they want their own children to die in a purge, basically sounds like a rampage-killing waiting to happen and isn't a safe person to have on a website frequented by other human beings (whom they explicitly hate).

Although you've been here longer than me, I would suggest you either leave, and spare yourself the torture of even the thinnest form of human interaction, or stop pretending you're an edgy nihilist sigma male or whatever it is you think you've got going on these days.

[Dr. Caelus]

And for the record I have never played well with others, never will and when $hit goes south I'll be one of the ones that survives because I can/will and have to do whatever it takes to survive regardless who I have to take out on the way.

You're posting on a website devoted to toy collecting.

[Cyber Bishop]

And for the record I have never played well with others, never will and when $hit goes south I'll be one of the ones that survives because I can/will and have to do whatever it takes to survive regardless who I have to take out on the way.

You're posting on a website devoted to toy collecting.

In a place and in a thread where so many others bring their sociopolitical crap that doesn't belong on a toy collecting website. I am a lot older and cynical than I used to be as the 50's have been rough and society is just getting worse.

or stop pretending you're an edgy nihilist sigma male or whatever it is you think you've got going on these days.

Not edgy just sick and tired. Maybe if people would learn how not to be complete dicks to others things might get better but that isn't going to happen any time soon.

[Dr. Caelus]

And for the record I have never played well with others, never will and when $hit goes south I'll be one of the ones that survives because I can/will and have to do whatever it takes to survive regardless who I have to take out on the way.

You're posting on a website devoted to toy collecting.

In a place and a thread where so many others bring their sociopolitical crap that doesn't belong on a toy collecting website. I am a lot older and cynical than I used to be as the 50's have been rough.

Mostly it's just the big Tyler Durden ripoff monologue would be cringe humor as it is, but with toy ads posted all around it it just looks kind of sad.

[Cyber Bishop]

Mostly it's just the big Tyler Durden ripoff monologue would be cringe humor as it is, but with toy ads posted all around it it just looks kind of sad.

Ah yes Fight club, saw it a couple times and nah his way wasn't the right way to go but unlikle the movie I am real. Like someone else said Thanos had it right. Don't care if it looks happy, sad, pathetic, whatever, others can say and spew whatever crap they want then so can I.

[Cyber Bishop]

One more thing..

[Burn]

Hey look! Small pointless matter about something that doesn't really harm anyone has blown out of proportion!

Whodathunkit?

[Cyber Bishop]

Hey look! Small pointless matter about something that doesn't really harm anyone has blown out of proportion!

Whodathunkit?

My issue isn't with this show its society & people. On that note I am out.

[Rodimus Prime]

Hey look! Small pointless matter about something that doesn't really harm anyone has blown out of proportion!

Whodathunkit?

Except it's not small and pointless. It's forced to become part of every day life for everyone by those who advocate for it with disregard of anyone else.

[Immortal Starscream]

This reminds me a bit of the longs years of back and forth about female transformers. The argument I remember most from that is "is a toaster a woman?" as the argument was generally machines cant actually have a gender, etc etc. My thought has always been, if they are well written and interesting characters in a compelling, interesting or fun story, then who really cares? I think nightshade is an interesting character, in a good show. though I was expecting the alt mode to be a bat.

There's real problems with real solutions that our politics could be working to fix. The sexuality of a cartoon machine toy commercial isn't something I would even put in the list of priorities.

Also this kinda thing has been in the comics now for years.

[Bumblevivisector]

Hey look! Small pointless matter about something that doesn't really harm anyone has blown out of proportion!

Whodathunkit?

My issue isn't with this show its society & people. On that note I am out.

FWIW, your comments sort of dug a nihilistic trench that might serve as a firebreak, so it'll be interesting to see if this thread doesn't go all the way to hell. Thanks C.B.

[chuckdawg1999]

Until now. I've chosen to stay out of this thread because I'm just not fond of this show. I gave it a chance and its not for me. However Its not like I wish it not to exist. I dont worry about what I can't control.

However the news obviously was posted by a member of this site, so then conversation surrounding it has been given a greenlight. That's my interpretation at least.

Those that know me, know I am apolitical. I believe no human can govern competently, so I look to a close knit community of friends and those that share my faith for inspiration and encouragement, which has served me well.

AS for the obvious subject of Transgenderism that this show has decided to incorporate into itself. Well... it is what it is. Conservative Media (Like Liberal Media) will latch on to something, albeit a bit late to the party, it will make the rounds with all the talking heads, then be gone just as quickly as it came then move on to the next outrage.

AS for me personally, my kids are too old to care about this show, if not for me as a Transformers Fan, they wouldn't even know it exists. If however, we wound back the clocks a decade, and this was in their demo, They wouldn't watch it. It's not that I am so personally offended or outraged, it's just that I believe it is a very odd message to put in a show aimed at children.

Sure this is a show about fictional robots, so one could argue that they can literally be anything they want to be, but it is still an odd choice, considering (one would assume) these robots are not sexual in nature despite obviously having male and female personalities. That being said, I'm not going to tell anyone they cant watch it, or that they shouldn't let their kids watch. It seems to have an overall positive vibe and positive response from the fan community. However, everyone has to make the that decision for themselves. Personally, as I watched my young son grow up, and be enthralled by Rescue Bots in it's first couple of seasons, I really miss shows like that. Just My 2 cents.

I was going to basically say the same thing. Since the beginning, I've always thought of Transformers as They, Thems, or Its, just because they're robots and were only given human personalities and roles such as gender and race as a way to get as many eyes on the show and buy toys as possible. That's television and has been done since the dawn of the picture tube.

My issue with Earthspark and I'll admit I'm not as caught up on the show as I should be, is that having a character make an issue about pronouns is clearly trying to bring the larger debate to a kids' show, that's something I'm not OK with as it's taking decision making authority from parents over what they want their kids to know and when. This isn't the first time this has happened but this is the first time I've seen it brought up in the media. Sociopolitical issues, as has been stated have been a part of cartoons and comics for decades, the difference being that in the past it was done in such a way that it really made you think and didn't hit you over the head with the message. Does anyone remember "The Golden Lagoon" and "God Gambit?" They don't make shows like that anymore.

[NeonPrime]

I watched the news clip a day or so ago and was wondering if or when there'd be a thread, lol. For the record, The Earthspark clip discussing non-binary pronouns was cringy and eye-rolling even with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek.


Transformers have always been political albeit in-universe. Autobot: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." and Decepticon: "Peace through tyranny." Robots on both sides fall somewhere in between far red/Bots & purple/Cons, moderates, or independents. Both sides believe they are the good guys. Make of that what you will and draw any human parallels you wish. But, it's that character depth and storytelling that has made it so beloved and carried the brand for almost 40 years.

Gender and relationships also have been part of Transformers lore. Whether it was the Arcee-Hot Rod-Springer love triangle in G1 or the Cyclonus-Tailgait dynamic in modern comics. Even the robot-human alliances explored pack an emotional punch from time to time.

For the most part, these themes were introduced to a demographic that already had a basic sense of defined boundaries. As a result, they could intellectualize, debate, and articulate their stance on a particular topic.

Earthspark is generally geared toward a younger audience that is impressionable and not ready for more mature gray/blurred ideas like pronouns. Personally, it does seem like woke grooming and I totally understand any parental outrage. It's a slippery slope indeed.

Hasbro's decision to allow Woke/WEF idealogy reminds me of MGA Entertainment's LOL Dolls. My little girl loved them. Then in late 2019/early 2020, I noticed these toys started looking more like blow-up dolls and hookers. On one trip to Target, my lil girl picked out a new LOL boy blind figure. Imagine MY SURPRISE when we get home and find the doll actually has a penis. To this day my son, who is older, still laughs about hearing my reaction from upstairs. Needless to say, MGA lost my business. Several weeks later we were at the same Target and another mother was overheard expressing her disdain over the brand as well.

All that said, will I call for or support a boycott of Hasbro? Time will tell. After all the windowless packaging was a woke/WEF move that had nothing to do with saving the planet but to boost their ESG score. Fans/collectors protested and Hasbro is correcting course. Will I throw shade on those that do or don't? No. For now, I'll remain patient and reserve judgment until the data is in. However, in light of recent corporate directives, I would caution Hasbro that to go woke is to go broke. NEVER FORGET the old Toys R Us slogan "Where a kid can be a kid" and not a socio-political pawn for money or virtue signaling.


Til all are one!

[Blastshock]

I think Megyn Kelly should get fired for sayin’ this. May cost her job, period.

[Dr. Caelus]

Earthspark is generally geared toward a younger audience that is impressionable and not ready for more mature gray/blurred ideas like pronouns. Personally, it does seem like woke grooming and I totally understand any parental outrage.

I have two family members who are trans, and of all of us, my son has certainly had the least difficulty with the 'mature' issue of 'pronouns'. We had to tell him it was rude to go up to people and ask them if they have a penis - that was a necessary discussion either way, and it's been the most complex parenting required so far regarding the topic of gender.

All in all, I appreciate Earthspark showing that being nonbinary or non-cis is uncommon but not weird, all the moreso because Nightshade has turned into a character who is awesome for reasons unrelated to their gender identity.

As a parent, I don't have the resources to make the TV shows I want my children to watch, but I do have the power to withold the shows I don't want them to watch. So, if parents don't want their children exposed to something in particular, they can do what I do - tell them no, they can't watch it, and deal with that.

'Parents' trying to erase queer, trans*, or non-binary characters from every scrap of media (or even publuc space) that their child might see, so that they can pretend that people like my nephew or my cousin don't exist, is BS.

Also, with people who always want to ban things because 'they aren't ready to answer their child's questions about it', I always have to wonder if they even parent at all?

[william-james88]

I watched the news clip a day or so ago and was wondering if or when there'd be a thread, lol.

I wasn't sure if I should news it, but with this becoming a Transformers related story that actually is getting covered by mainsteam media, like the New York Post, I would be remiss if it wasn't covered on an actual TF news site. My main mistake is that I should have titled it "Megyn Kelly of Fox News Fame" rather than "Fox News' Megyn Kelly" just to be a bit more accurate in the title and avoid two apostraphes back to back.

My issue with Earthspark and I'll admit I'm not as caught up on the show as I should be, is that having a character make an issue about pronouns is clearly trying to bring the larger debate to a kids' show, that's something I'm not OK with as it's taking decision making authority from parents over what they want their kids to know and when.

As a parent, I can tell you that we do not have the decision making authority for what our kids know regarding this matter. The government has legalized gay marriage and not only same sex married couples could adopt or have kids through in vitro fertilization and a surrogate. That means that we live in a time when some kids are aware of same sex relationships from the moment they can talk. You can extrapolate that to any kind of relationship, be it of two men where one identifies as a woman or of a man and a woman where they both identify as male. Either way, their child will be made aware of their parents' identity as early as kids are aware of the social norms of a male dad and a female mom.
And for kids of hetero couples, they then become aware of all that from the moment they are in the same daycare or classroom as kids with same sex parents (or any other non cis scenario). So in reality, parents no longer have any authority on the matter. The only way to get it back (if parents feel it has been taken from them) would be to segregate children of hetero couples into private institutions where kids of same sex couple or trans people cannot go to, or to institute homeschooling at the national level.

So the paradigm has shifted and we are now living in a state of flux as the norm settles on all kids being made aware of same sex and trans couples being parents as they are of hetero couples being parents.

I want to make something clear here, I am not saying I am for or against any of what I mentioned, I just wanted to explain the current reality as a parent, since it was brought up. Parents do not have a choice, this is the new norm. The only way to change that is through legislation by denying certain couples the right to be parents or through segregation. Though, honestly, I don't think there's anyway the genie can be put back in the lamp; case in point, here's a shot of the kids' book section at my local TJMaxx store where I bring my kids to shop (and sometimes find TF toys).

[Sard]

:roll: Major Rant incoming (Since We decided we had to make a news article that clearly talks about politics, don't be surprised that I talk about politics. )

You know, I generally watch/play/read media to ESCAPE the real-world/overly political side of things. I watched up to maybe episode 4 of Earthspark (a show which I wasn't entirely enjoying to be honest) before I said I'd take a break. Found out a while later that Nightshade fell into the political vat, and I decided the show wasn't worth my time. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it in the show about how it "makes sense", because it's the year 2023, and I know the real-world reason why it's being done. Of course adding identity- politics into a show which, let's be honest, the target demographic being children, I find to be underhanded. It's not just Transformers either; many cartoons, comics, games, movies, etc. of ESTABLISHED IPS have more or less been up-ended for "modern" audiences, and said IPs (and the fans that made them what they are) are the ones that suffer in quality and/or revenue. I sure most will see it as innocent and don't see the harm in a sentient robot referring to himself as "they" (even though grammatically it's disingenuous), but it more or less tells kids that this type of behavior is acceptable. I know a lot of parents who are just tired of having identity politics entrenched in their kids' entertainment (even education), and even adults who steer clear of media with it now.

In the end, all I'll say, is keep identity-politics out of entertainment.

Also, I would respectfully request that we refrain from bringing up topics like this again in the future, since I know people on both sides can be very "passionate" about their views, and civil discussions aren't always on the minds of most who wander on the forums.

I registered a year ago and this is only my third post here, so I apologize if this post breaks etiquette but it's not like I've got the enmeshed concerns of community here that more longstanding posters have. With that out of the way: a passionate response:

This is nonsense, and worse, it's the kind of tiring nonsense that pretends that the status quo is neutral and that it's your ideological other that's stirring the pot. None of this is new, especially not the hate being directed at it. I was bullied relentlessly in grade school because of the mere rumor that I was gay, and one of the biggest reasons for that rumor was that I had been raised to believe that "this type of behavior is acceptable." Maybe if more shows like this were around back then, I could have had a less miserable childhood. Maybe it's better that kids are shown a better point of view than the fear inherited by their parents. The words have changed over the years but the tune remains the same, I've seen nothing of this latest fearmongering that wouldn't fit alongside the hysterical ranting of my school years—bleating that traditionalists now pretend they never uttered, as they ready charges against their new targets.

It's bewildering that anyone here can get into a setting like Transformers, where when it isn't selling toys is staging both basic and thoughtful explorations of the themes of freedom and identity, and come away with this worldview. You're calling this a modern scheme, but hateful people were burning books and clinics a century ago over just this topic. People have been attacked, censured, and left on the street because of this topic. If we are discussing this civilly, then let us be honest. Which side of history do you think it is that keeps making something like this a moral panic, and then a violent one? Looking back, when it was interracial couples, when it was women's equality, when it was homosexual culture, when it was all these accusedly insidious things that were being slipped into the minds of the youngest generation, how much harm came of it? And how much real, physical harm came of the reactionary uproar in opposition?