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Dorkimus wrote:Take it the way you please. After all, you right wing people like to lable anyone, who is not thinking as you the enemy.

You really think so?
Because so far, us "right wing" people are willing to listen and have a discussion without threats of doxxing, cancelling, or doing actual violence.

Do an experiment. walk around wearing a MAGA hat in a "left wing" neighborhood. You'll be lucky with a just trip to the hospital.
Now walk around a "right wing" neighborhood with a BLM, LGBT, Biden shirt. The worst that will happen to you is someone saying "your dumb" (misspelling intentional).

Try listening to the other side for once as we do.
Also, why do you think that yesterday liberals and moderates, like me, are now considered "far right" by the Left?

By your logic, these women below are "far right extremists":

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Dorkimus wrote:Take it the way you please. After all, you right wing people like to lable anyone, who is not thinking as you the enemy.

You really think so?
Because so far, us "right wing" people are willing to listen and have a discussion without threats of doxxing, cancelling, or doing actual violence.

Do an experiment. walk around wearing a MAGA hat in a "left wing" neighborhood. You'll be lucky with a just trip to the hospital.
Now walk around a "right wing" neighborhood with a BLM, LGBT, Biden shirt. The worst that will happen to you is someone saying "your dumb" (misspelling intentional).

Try listening to the other side for once as we do.
Also, why do you think that yesterday liberals and moderates, like me, are now considered "far right" by the Left?

If you quote these, then follow the whole conversation and not just part of it. Your Friend mr Black Hat here just labeled me as a "terrorist" based on the fact that my asnwer was not what he wanted. Asnwer to a question where one can't simply answer yes or no. Specially since he most likely had already made his mind about the matter. So yes, I kind of think so. Note that I have not cancelled anyone or threathened anybody. But yeah...nevermind then. Lets agree that we are forever divided or somesuch.

I didn't call YOU a terrorist. I said that the people you are defending are terrorists. Don't put words in my mouth.

Part...four? Is this four? I've lost count. Where even am I? Send help! Wait, no. Send FOOD! Then help!

High Command wrote:Super Mega Ultra Wicked Godlike Bigger Longer and Uncut SNIP

I'm against a fascist, totalitarian state that tells me what to do and where to go, yes. Stupid question. Moving on.

I -think- the KKK is officially classed as a terrorist organization. I dunno, I'd have to look. Typing this right now though.

Uh, sure? Lets see, burning crosses in peoples yards, assaults and lynchings, the only thing I see, or rather don't, that would keep me from calling them terrorists is that terrorists usually have a goal in mind that they're pushing with their violence. The KKK just doesn't like black people. I'd say it's more of a cult than a terrorist organization. At any rate, the KKK is a faded shadow of what it was, so designating them as terrorists now is kinda like stepping on a bug that's already been hit by a car. Do it if it makes you feel better, pretty sure it's already dead though.

I don't know, it's a lot, and we'll never know the truth.

I don't know, it's a lot, and we'll never know the truth.

I don't know, it's a lot, and we'll never know the truth. Here's the thing about these last three questions. each one of them on their own is pointless and stupid, but taken together they seek to make a comparison, as if whoever has the lowest score is somehow the better actor. They're not. But if they were let me make one point VERY clear. Anyone killed by the KKK was NEVER justified and was murder. Anyone killed Antifa was NEVER justified and was murder. The police have to be looked at to see what was actual murder and what was them doing their job. This is the task we have given anyone who puts on the badge and we cannot paint them with the same brush after doing so. That's worse than a witch hunt, that's a set up. Some police killing have been straight up murder, that does not make the case every time and this whole thing is a false equivolence.

I have spoken out against Antifa more, but it's also not a fair question. The KKK are gone. The few people still left of them are scattered across the country in small pockets that no one cares about and no one is joining. In the next 100 years the last remaining Klan members will die off, miserable and alone, and the KKK will be a footnote in history. Antifa is active right now, in my lifetime. They are taking actions, right now, that are hurting my community. No amount of righteous vengence will excuse the people they've hurt and the property they've damaged, and they have a habit of doing so. There is no such thing as a peaceful protest or civil disobedience when Antifa gets involved in your march, protest, or organization.

^^^^^ See above

Terrorism vs Police Force...really? I have to do this? Alright. Once upon a time, some people came together and said that we're settling here. They created a community, and as that community grew they made a small government. That government, made up of the people, made laws to keep the community safe and orderly. Then they needed someone to enforce those laws and they picked a sheriff. As the community grew the sheriff needed help so people from the community joined up. Do you see where this is going? The police exist to make sure everyone is following the laws, and yes sometimes they will use threat of legal consequences to keep people in line. In general however, its not necessary, and when it is necessary, it usually doesn't work. A terrorist is someone who wants to use violence and intimidation to change the policies, laws, or sometimes the whole government. They are NOT chosen by their community and actively seed to disrupt that community and force everyone into compliance through fear. The two are not even remotely equivical.

Again, do I really have to do this. You're trying to equate the actions of the president to terrorism. I can only assume this refers to the "Looting/Shooting" tweet he put out and the threat to deploy the national guard and/or army. The fact is simple. He's the president. He has one job. Like him or hate him, his job is to keep the country safe, secure, orderly, and alive. Right now we have riots across the country. The police in these places are either inflaming them in the places where they're not already overrun or have simply quit and left. At some point, the buck and the blame stops with him. For the next several months until the election, it is HIS responsability. This means that if he does nothing, then he is resposible for the damage caused by the riots in these cities which, as I understand, is starting to rack up in the billions. If he does restore order, then he's being a fascist. As above, this is not a fair or equivocal question. The president is in a lose-lose situation, dependant entirely on your position on the situation, and there is no right answer to it.

That was shorter. Some of those questions were very stupid. If you wrote them, I'm sorry but they were. If you didn't, then tell the other person they're stupid. I don't know them...and if I do, well, they were. Next Ten!

Dorkimus wrote:If you quote these, then follow the whole conversation and not just part of it. Your Friend mr Black Hat here just labeled me as a "terrorist" based on the fact that my asnwer was not what he wanted. Asnwer to a question where one can't simply answer yes or no. Specially since he most likely had already made his mind about the matter. So yes, I kind of think so. Note that I have not cancelled anyone or threathened anybody. But yeah...nevermind then. Lets agree that we are forever divided or somesuch.

That was hyperbolic from Black Hat for sure (if he directly called you a "terrorist, that is.). But justifying Antifa's and the looter's actions is pretty dodgy in my opinion. Please take the time to listen to the actual victims in the video above. Video that you conveniently skipped.

It's pretty heart wrenching to see lives DESTROYED while the criminal's actions are downplayed or justified by so many leftists, politicians, academics, and too many in the mainstream media.

Black Lives Matter.

It is so strange to read other fansites where this sort of debate is just banned. Like the world outside of our windows just doesn't exist.

I don't know if antifa in the US are bad girls and guys, could be. The ones we have here are good guys, doing what antifascists are supposed to: punch Nazis in the face.

In an ideal world all policing and judgement should be lefts to the courts and police, of course. But when some As#hole decides to align themselves with the ideology that was behind Nazi Germany, the genocide during ww2, then it's alright to punch them in the face. In my honest opinion.

Captains Log, Stardate...post five. This worked out better in my head. Anyway, onward!

High Command wrote:Super Mega Ultra Wicked Godlike Bigger Longer and Uncut SNIP

China and Hong Kong. If you want to see what an actual fascist state looks like, there you go. As far as China is concerned, Hong Kong belongs to them. The land belongs to them. The businesses belong to them. The people belong to them. They're not even people. Citizens are people. Hong Kongers aren't citizens, and thus not people, and China is free to do whatever they like to them. I don't know how they refer to them, but I do know how they treat them.

What's your point with this question? I'm not looking at the statistics for these questions because the numbers don't matter. numbers are the cover behind which arguements hide. If your point is that there are more white mass shooters than black, I'll give it to you. Now let me turn it around. Of all those killed by mass shooters, how many of them are white? Sure, you have some outliers, namely the church shooting it Alabama(? I think it was Alabama) but most of the have been schools, malls, shopping centers, and majority white. This is a misleading question that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. But take your point if it makes you feel better.

None of them have been called terrorists, as far as I know. I've heard the word thrown around here and there, especially if they leave some kind of note behind, but nothing that's ever stuck. On the flip side of that, look at the various Antifa that have been arrested over the last several years. None of them have been labeled terrorists either, whether they were operating in a group or alone. Then there was the shooter who went after the congressional baseball game, he wasn't considered a terrorist either. As it turns out, the word isn't thrown around that lightly.

A few of them, but less so as times gone on. The more we've gotten used to mass shootings(Now that is a depressing thought) the more we have held the shooters accountable for their actions. The New Zealand shooter wasn't considered mentally ill, neither was the walmart shooter. Neither has anyone from Antifa or the congressional shooter, so again, the arguement doesn't really hold water.

The woman in central park, that dumpster fire. I'll refer back to my comments about bad blood lingering from the civil rights era. The sad truth is that we will never be free of racists. They do exist. Not in the quantities some people would like but they do exist, and she's a prime example of one. But as it turns out she's actually not evidence of a systemic machine to keep black people oppressed, she's just a terrible person and the entire country descended on her en masse. She lost her job, lost her dog, lost her house. She will forever now be a pariah of the community(remember that from a few questions ago?) and probably kill herself at some point. These things sometimes solve themselves.

Again, because she's a terrible person. Call them stereotypes, call it evidence of systemic racism, call it what you will, we've all heard that if someone called the police on a black person then they'll take him away. And if he's threatening a white woman they'll just shoot him. Whether it's true or not will depend on who you ask. In this instance though, you have a genuine racist doing genuine racist things. The follow up question now is, now that you've found one, is this going to be the cudgel you use to judge and punish everyone else for preemptively? Because that would be just as wrong as what she did.

I don't know what she was thinking, I'm not in her head. If I had to guess, I'd say she probably didn't think that far ahead, only that the police will come, the police will be on my side, and I'll win. Obviously thinking wasn't her strong suit.

This is a fishing question. The answer it's looking for is anything tied to systeming racism towards blacks and i'm not dignifying it.

Why do I know what she's thinking? Suddenly the entire non-black population has some kind of hive mind? Do better. The first questions were at least actual questions.

I'm not going to answer this question. Instead I'm going to address how condescending this questions is. Asking the question of simply "Do you know why this is wrong" is half the problem here. It implies that not only does the other side not understand why something is wrong, but that they might not even be mentally capable of understanding that. It fundamentally dehumanizes whoever you're asking and removed any ground for a discussion because it's already been poisoned with the idea that one side is the intellectual superior in the conversation. This would be no better than looking at the protesters and telling them they should be better behaved. It wouldn't be appropriate then, and it's not now.

Alright, that's ten more. Less than ten to go I think. Only one post left!

rockHard83 wrote:Black Lives Matter.

It is so strange to read other fansites where this sort of debate is just banned. Like the world outside of our windows just doesn't exist.

I don't know if antifa in the US are bad girls and guys, could be. The ones we have here are good guys, doing what antifascists are supposed to: punch Nazis in the face.

In an ideal world all policing and judgement should be lefts to the courts and police, of course. But when some As#hole decides to align themselves with the ideology that was behind Nazi Germany, the genocide during ww2, then it's alright to punch them in the face. In my honest opinion.

Be VERY careful of who you associate yourself with. Because for any antifa, the "Nazis" are everyone who don't agree with them. And ironically, especially Jewish people.

Sooner or later, THIS will happen to you if you associate with Antifa or support any other extremist groups:

Black Hat wrote:

If you were a German in world war 2 what would you have done?

I would have fought for my people, as anyone in any other country in any conflict would.

Quoted without comment, I'll let people make up their own minds.

Black Hat wrote:You aren't racist, are you?

No.

Black Hat wrote:

Why did the woman in Central Park think she could threaten someone by saying that she'd call the cops, when she was in the wrong and on film?

Why did she change her tone when she made the call and point out that a black man was attacking her?

What did she think was going to be the likely outcome when the cops arrived?

Why did she think this?

Why do you know what she was thinking too?

Who?

Ok fair enough, I confess that these questions don't provide enough specific details or context. I am referring to Amy Cooper who on the 25th May this year was filmed in Central Park making a call to the police where she falsely claims that she is being attacked by a black man. I won't link an article here but it was widely covered by many different sources both in the US and abroad and can be easily found online at your choice of source.

Black Hat wrote:Let me ask you some questions.

You are a policeman. You have to work in a community of a particular demographic that has higher than average crime rates as a result of the culture that has been fostered within that community (including among other members of the community who are not part of that demographic I might add). Violence is commonplace. Authority is not respected. You may or may not be part of the majority demographic, but because you uphold the law, you are disliked. A man who has committed violent crimes before is in the process of breaking the law. You are meant to apprehend him, and he begins to flee. How would you react?

According to my extensive police training which naturally includes restraining offenders and definitely doesn't mention kneeling on a blokes neck for over eight minutes while he cries for his mother, keeps repeating he can't breathe then passes out.


Edit to fix broken quote code.

Last call for alcohol...there is no alcohol. Onward anyway!

High Command wrote:Super Mega Ultra Wicked Godlike Bigger Longer and Uncut SNIP

Do I feel uncomfortable about any of these questions. I feel a lot of things answering these questions, uncomfortable is not one of them. I'm not afraid of debate, I'm not afraid to speak, and i'm not afraid of confrontation. Of all the things I do feel, I'm enraged. I'm depressed. I want to scream and cry and break something because it feels like all the words in the world are lost and it's the only expression I have left. If that sounds familiar, it should. That's the mantra of the riots that have been burning down the country for the last ten days. So in return I ask this: Knowing now how I feel, how does it make you feel? Do we still need to do this or can we finally come together and make compromises? Can we put aside rhetoric in exchange for discussion? Can we put the hate aside long enough to see if there is anything left to build on?

Would my answers be different? I can't say. I was raised with a strong foundation in logic, not rhetoric. No religous bringing to speak of, not much of an extended family to speak of, and living way out in the country not much in the way of outside influences, so logic is what I had. There are a lot of things I could have grown up with that might have changed my outlook on things, but if we spend our time looking at what could have been we'll miss what we have now. We have to keep our perspective and focus on what really matters right now.

Nope. Again, no stranger to debate, no stranger to conflict and criticism. So to answer this one and the next one at the same time, no, and that's the point. Why would I treat one group different than the other. That's not equality. That's pandering at best, insulting at worst. If we cannot even treat each other as equals to the point we won't SPEAK honestly, then there's nowhere to even begin to bridge the divide.

^^^^^^ As said, see above.

^^^^^^ Also see above.

I don't care what your skin color is. In riposte, if your skin color were different, would you be taking these answers any differently? If the answer is yes, then perhaps you should look inwards to your own bias' before trying to address those of others. it shouldn't matter what color you are. It shouldn't matter what color I am. If it does, then as said before, we can't even speak honestly enough to begin to mend.

^^^^^^ See that above too

Do I feel attacked by these questions. That's complicated because the answer is yes, but not for the reasons you probably think. I was young but I remember the LA riots. Not much, I've learned a lot about them lately though. I remember the Ferguson riots. I remember Baltimore. When Minneapolis happened I didn't even hesitate to voice my opinion that the cop should have been arrested. My suggestion had been manslaughter but I've learned more about law too and Murder Three seems better. I was with the protests all the way. And then it got political. Then it got violent. When the violence happened I threw my hands up and said "I was with you. I was behind you. We could have used this as leverage for real change." And then the opportunity was lost. Since then, rioting has burned city after city. Accusations of racism have been levied at anyone and EVERYONE who doesn't automaticly capitulate with the protested and organizations like BLM. I've tried to open discussions, I've been told to leave. Communities I've been a part of for years have called me racist and told me I'm not welcome. And for what? I've done nothing wrong, and neither have the majority of people out there.

More than that though, I can see where this leads. Every person chased out of their communities is going to go somewhere. Where will that be? Every person called a racist and told to take a hike. Every business owner that was looted and vandalized. Every protester that didn't bend the knee and do as told. They're all going to go somewhere. it's going to be to those racists like that woman in the park. They'll be waiting with open arms telling them to come to them. They'll be safe. There's a community there. The deeper the divide gets, the more people are told to pick a side, the more people will end up on the OTHER side, and what happens then? What if they grow into a voting block and can enact real political power? People now are worried about Trump and his 'fascist' state, but i pale to think about what could come AFTER him if we don't come together and start fixing this now.

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So that's all the questions. Some of them were dumb, some of them were very good and really did deserve answers. If I can sway just one person to actually talk instead of just scream "RACIST" at me and put me on ignore, I'll take that as a win. But if all I'm going to get is called racist, meh, I've been called racist from every community i've been chased out for the last week. Seibertron is the last community I have left, and I'm not letting it go without a fight. I'm not letting this divide take Seibertron too.

rockHard83 wrote:I don't know if antifa in the US are bad girls and guys, could be. The ones we have here are good guys, doing what antifascists are supposed to: punch Nazis in the face.

I'm sure there are some of those here in the US as well. Unfortunately their good work is drowned out by the louder, more brazen and reckless part of their members. A lot of them blatantly harass and physically assault people they deem anything other than what they are, and they hide behind masks and hoods because they know what they're doing is wrong and they don't want to answer for it. But they are just a small number compared to those seeking actual justice, and hopefully they won't have a large enough effect to hijack the peaceful protesters' message. That's why we always have to have our eyes open and listen to everything and not be fooled by their propaganda.

There's a few people in this thread who were already skating on thin ice and are at the point I could probably permanently ban them.

Some of you need to step back and stop forcing your opinion down the throats of others. Interestingly enough, it seems to be those opposed to BLM that are the most vocal.

Think about that for a second.

Black.Lives.Matter. Three words that are trying to highlight the inequality that black people suffer on a daily basis.

And all you can do is go on about how wrong it is, or how, like COVID-19, it's fake, or how it's just some bullshit whipped up by people who have nothing better to do.

What does that say about you? To me, it says you're a racist, or at the very least, a **** asshole who doesn't care about their fellow humans.

Ryan made this post to support BLM, because he sees the inequality, he sees the suffering. He made the thread to discuss BLM, but some how it's spun into crackpot conspiracy theories.

You've completely missed the point.

When BLM first started I was one of those who said "but all lives matter". I missed the point. But I read, I listened, and I learnt that the point of BLM isn't that only BLM, that no one has said other lives don't matter, that the idea of BLM was to highlight the inequalities and suffering that black people endure on a daily basis.

I am, for all intents and purposes, an outsider looking in. I'm not from America. I only see what the media lets me see or what I come across on Twitter.

But this problem isn't exclusive to America. Australia has a long history of abuse towards Indigenous Australians. From wholesale slaughter to children stealing (not the **** dingo either so don't bring that up), Indigenous Australians have had a rough go of it for the last 200+ years. Growing up, I went to school with Aboriginal kids, I went to school with Greek kids, with Italian kids, in high school Hmong and Indian kids, they were just kids like me.

But one group was treated differently, the Aboriginal kids. I remember going to school one day and running into one of the Aboriginal kids from my class. His head had been shaved because he had nits. While any other kid who got nits had them treated, but if you were Aboriginal, instant head shave. That bloke, who I should add was a great bloke, was always joking ... later went on to kill himself. I don't know why, but I look back and see how the school system was geared against him. Another Aboriginal kid who grew up around the corner from me, fantastic athelete, he too killed himself. As do a lot of young Aboriginal men, simply because the Australian Government just keeps throwing money at the problem without offering any concrete solution, because the way I see it, they don't care.

When Australia was first colonised, Aboriginals were regarded as sub-human, and that's something I believe the old rich white dudes who are currently make up the Australian Government still believe.

But as someone who grew up with them, they're people just like me.

Their lives don't mean more than mine (unless you catch me during one of my depressive days in which case I'll tell you they do) but they need help. Even though they share the same rights as me, even though they are entitled to the same things as me, the colour of their skin sees them treated less, they have to work harder to prove themselves.

And that's why, while all lives matter, we need to shine a light on black lives mattering as well, because it's high time we stopped treating them differently, as lesser human beings.

Put your conspiracy theories aside and see that.

-Kanrabat- wrote:
Be VERY careful of who you associate yourself with. Because for any antifa, the "Nazis" are everyone who don't agree with them. And ironically, especially Jewish people.

Sooner or later, THIS will happen to you if you associate with Antifa or support any other extremist groups:

Do you have a reliable source for those claims about antifa?

And I must say that YouTube clip is just silly. What are you trying to tell me?

I love the people here saying what's basically "don't believe what the news tell you, do some research!" when speaking against the protests and how there's damage being done to businesses and property.

End of the day, a building can be put back together. Groceries, tools, cleaning supplies, toys, they can all be restocked. In 30-50 years your toys are going to be in landfills or a glass cabinet never to be touched again. Where would George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Philando Castile be in 30-50 years? Loving their families, enjoying their lives, something far more important than a department store that can be rebuilt. Could they have become criminals? Yeah they could have been, I don't know them personally and I can't see the future. But for all I know you could be a neo-nazi, I don't know who you are either!

and it's not just black people being killed out there. Cases of police brutality against Native Americans happens all the time, on their own land, and nobody talks about it. And when they DO talk about it it's forgotten about in a month because what to governments do? They prevent the media from reporting on it by doing exactly what they're doing now, chasing journalists away or arresting them and then releasing them saying "Oh, sorry we didn't know you were press!" Except in cases where Native Americans are involved, it works. I could keep going on about this, because All Lives DO Matter, but all lives aren't the focus right now. Non POC people aren't the focus right now, and Native Americans aren't the focus right now.


Of course All Lives Matter, but it's not all lives who are raising their voices right now, it's the voice of one group of people who have faced slavery, racism, death, and abuse for hundreds, or even thousands of years. When peaceful protests were swept aside, when speaking up was drowned out, when raising awareness is ignored, what else is there for a downtrodden people to do but to take to the streets and protest? This time it's happening at an age where phones and cameras are in everyone's pockets, and where people who weren't aware of it happening can see it. That is why there is so much people speaking up in support of Black Lives Matter.

Yes, the heart of the issue is racism, pure and simple. The lives of black people, white people, latino people, native americans, asians, somalians, tibetans, east coasters, west coasters, Brian down at the bar, Tina from across the street and Edwardo who sits across from you at work all matter. But we clearly can't make you care about all of us, so if you need to take baby steps into giving a shi* about other groups of human beings, then let's start with one.

Black Lives Matter.

Burn wrote:There's a few people in this thread who were already skating on thin ice and are at the point I could probably permanently ban them.

This is a mentality that I must say I simply abhor. Everywhere around the internet people with authority are carving out small pockets of their own perspectives. All sides of the spectrum are trying to wall themselves up into hiveminds that only serves to drive us further apart and reinforce the "us and them" that has accelerated these extreme divisions.
You may not like what the other person is saying, but if you delete them from your life then any outcome of coming to an understanding, no matter how small, disappears and becomes more bitter resentment for everyone.

Burn, as I said in a previous post. Black lives matter.

I didn't capitalize the last 2 words because I believe in, support, and practice the concept. I work with a lot of black people and live in a town with 75% black population. I treat them with respect and vice versa. Race difference has never been an issue for me. Because I value their existence the same as ANYONE else.

I understand why the phrase "black lives matter" has to be highlighted and repeated over and over. Because it's the rallying cry of those who have bern systematically victimized. And that's despicable.

But it's not the same as BLM. Black Lives Matter, the movement, is all about politics and using that very rallying cry to push an ideal that has nothing to do with actually savong black people. And I'm not blaming black people for it either. Yeah, there are sone blacks involved, but they're largely asking for what the concept promises: to be treated with equality, respect and dignity. BLM demands us to kowtow to people who want to bring socialism and other economic changes in the guise of racial equality, among other things. And that can't happen.

So before you call me a racist or a "**** asshole" for not being a sheep and instead considering what BLM actually is as opposed to what it claims to be, please know the difference.

Burn wrote:Not the bigges snip I've made today, but still big

You brought up a lot of good points, but if I can bring a bit of perspective.

I can't speak for everyone but I don't think most people really hate Black Lives Matter. I think most people would be supportive of it if it were anything else. The problem isn't with the movement itself, it's the reaction. You can see it in the forums, you can see it on facebook(BOy can you see it on facebook). Anything less than total agreement and servility to the movement is treated with hostility. I think of it this way. We all want the same thing(outside of a few people that are feeding the chaos) but as with any large group there's disagreement on how to get there. Some people got in behind groups like BLM, others said some things are good but maybe some things should be different. That changed at some point.

Whatever was a peaceful, progressive movement became something hate filled. It now exists in a, no pun intended, black or white state. You're either with them or against them. There's no longer any middle ground, no room to compromise, not even room to show your support in a different way if it's not them. As it stands now, with people all over the world in every fandom, every community, every game, every server taking up BLM in support, they've all been toxified into a "With or or against us" enviroment.

Speaking for myself, I'm with them, or I would be under other circumstances. I agree with their motives, but not their actions. Because of that I'm branded a racist and a white supremecist when it could not be farther from the truth. All I'm trying to do is look for solutions, but because it's not obedience it's unacceptable. That's what the movement has become and it's a far cry from what it should be. But now it's here.

I don't disagree with Ryan's position in all of this, only what it's done to the community here. The response should never have been this toxic or straight up hateful, in either direction. Can't be undone now though.

Diaboragon wrote:

Burn wrote:There's a few people in this thread who were already skating on thin ice and are at the point I could probably permanently ban them.

This is a mentality that I must say I simply abhor. Everywhere around the internet people with authority are carving out small pockets of their own perspectives. All sides of the spectrum are trying to wall themselves up into hiveminds that only serves to drive us further apart and reinforce the "us and them" that has accelerated these extreme divisions.
You may not like what the other person is saying, but if you delete them from your life then any outcome of coming to an understanding, no matter how small, disappears and becomes more bitter resentment for everyone.

I 100% get what you're saying, and I realise how I may have come across as being vindictive and trying to silence an opinion I don't agree with.

BUT ... some of these people have a history of rule breaking and have received warnings in the past, which is where my "skating on thin ice" line comes from.

Rodimus Prime wrote:So before you call me a racist or a "**** asshole" for not being a sheep and instead considering what BLM actually is as opposed to what it claims to be, please know the difference.

You know, I could have accepted everything you said there, but you basically said three things.

1 - I wasn't educated on what BLM is so you took it upon yourself to do so thereby...
2 - Calling people like me who don't understand BLM a "sheep".
3 - That you think I would resort to calling you an asshole for not being a sheep. I call you an asshole because calling people names is an Australian way of showing mateship! Along with ****, dickhead, knob jockey ... you get the idea.

Please, tell me I've taken that the wrong way.

If what I say gets me banned then so be it.

I agree black lives matter, hence why I say ALL lives matter.

Human life matters whether it be black, white, yellow, orange, purple, old, young, handicapped, anyone's life


The idea of systemic racism against the black community is almost wiped out. Law enforcement does not have systemic racism. There are racist cops. However, the legal code itself is not.

Yes, there is a need to reform the police. Militarization is a large problem. By this I mean the growing commonplace use of military equipment, weapons, and tactics and the growing distancing of police officers from people.

However, there is one big form of systemic racism, which from its foundation targets blacks, Planned Parenthood. An organization whose purpose is the extermination of blacks who their founder referred to as "weeds".

The fact that this is not dealt with by many if any BLM memebers and its leadership tells me that no matter how well intentioned BLM is, it is either unaware or ignoring legitimate systemic racism, which we all pay for.

What happened to George Flyod is and was a tragedy!

And yet everyday 900 black babies are butchered. That is systemic racism. That must stop! If we do stop it, we will have seriously crippled systemic racism.



https://rtl.org/multicultural-outreach/ ... tatistics/


https://www.lifenews.com/2015/08/03/mar ... her-image/


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I6XfU8KVkzI


https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/artic ... duckgo.com

Black Hat wrote:

High Command wrote:Has the KKK ever been recognised as a terrorist organisation?

The KKK is defunct and outlawed.

Now that's comedy!

ShadowKatt wrote:I don't disagree with Ryan's position in all of this, only what it's done to the community here. The response should never have been this toxic or straight up hateful, in either direction. Can't be undone now though.

This thread has, to simplify it, has gone the exact same way every other political thread has gone.

One view is presented, then an opposing view is presented, and so it goes back and forth. And at the end of the day, the only thing that is achieved is that people who normally got along, suddenly find themselves looking at others with different eyes because they've seen a different side of them.

I'm not surprised by the reactions in here, some I expected, some are just "oh okay, they think that way, that's fine".

But at the end of the day, this thread will eventually quiet down and things will go back to normal.

Problem there? Nothing's been achieved.

And sadly that's what I feel will happen with all these protests. Nothing will come of it. Things will eventually return to normal, the problem will be turned back to simmer.

I'm just rambling now. I woke to five pages of this and still haven't had breakfast.

Burn wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:So before you call me a racist or a "**** asshole" for not being a sheep and instead considering what BLM actually is as opposed to what it claims to be, please know the difference.

You know, I could have accepted everything you said there, but you basically said three things.

1 - I wasn't educated on what BLM is so you took it upon yourself to do so thereby...
2 - Calling people like me who don't understand BLM a "sheep".
3 - That you think I would resort to calling you an asshole for not being a sheep. I call you an asshole because calling people names is an Australian way of showing mateship! Along with ****, dickhead, knob jockey ... you get the idea.

Please, tell me I've taken that the wrong way.

Yeah, you did but it's not your fault. Sometimes I have trouble properly communicating my points, especially when I'm in a hurry. Actually ShadowKatt said it much better than I did in the post before yours.

Anyway, no, I didn't call you sheep. You seem to agree with the concept of black lives matter, as I do. And that last line was condescending, and I apologize. It made me a hypocrite, because I can't stand it when someone looks down on me for thinking differently and saying "educate yourself" to me. So no offense meant. And I'm not saying that because you're an admin and technically my boss, but because we're friends and I respect you. We may not agree on all the details but we do on the core idea and bottom line of this whole thing: black lives matter.

Racism in America is not a 'white problem' it's an American problem (a problem which has counterparts in every nation on Earth). Because of our history, going back to before we were even a nation, we have an implicit racial hierarchy that people of all colors in America are aware of and understand, even if we don't agree with it or talk about it.

That system is sustained by people who benefit materially, socially, or psychologically from that hierarchy actively enforcing it through physical or verbal violence, but it's *also* sustained by people who try to deny it because they think that will make it go away, people who feel apathetic towards the problem because it doesn't immediately affect them personally, and even by people who are aware and opposed to the problem, but feel defeated by it,

Racial biases affect people of all backgrounds, even to the point of biasing them against people of their own race (last I knew, even black cops were predisposed to overly aggressive interactions with black civilians, though obviously not so extremely as non-black cops, and this may have changed). Racism in America is not a problem with how white people perceive black people, it's a problem with the way Americans see black people... and Latinx people, Asian people, indigenous people,and even white people (no one signs up for "white privilege", it's just something that's there because society gives it to us whether we want it or not).

The notion that America's racial tensions and conflicts are due to some innate defect of some or all white individuals in America is itself the product of a widespread implicit belief that white America is the 'main character' in our national narrative, relegating every other race to a supporting role in the story. (In other words, if you feel *personally* attacked by people generally talking about racism in America, you probably need to get over yourself.)

That's not to say that everyone shares equal blame. Violent white supremacists, obviously, do more to sustain American racism than the apathy of the average person, but the latter is far more numerous than the former, and without the average American's silence, the white supremacist would likely be rotting in jail.

It also doesn't mean everyone shares equal responsibility. Regardless of whose 'fault' our situation is, white people collectively have more power to fix or mitigate the problem than people of color do, and, well, Spider-Man has explained the implications of that enough times that "With great power comes great responsibility" should probably be retroactively written into our Constitution.

Individual Americans obviously vary wildly in backgrounds, perspectives, and personalities but our national identity operates at the aggregate level, so that our culture and policies are shaped by the things we have in common - unfortunately, while those commonalities include American moral values about fairness and equality, it also includes pervasive implicit and explicit beliefs about people of different races. Such conflicts produce cognitive dissonance at the national level, and that produces a society torn between wanting to do the right thing and wanting to defend doing the wrong thing.

I'm not a big fan of religion, but this passage still speaks to me:

"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me." Matthew 25:40

#BlackLivesMatter

rockHard83 wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:
Be VERY careful of who you associate yourself with. Because for any antifa, the "Nazis" are everyone who don't agree with them. And ironically, especially Jewish people.

Sooner or later, THIS will happen to you if you associate with Antifa or support any other extremist groups:

Do you have a reliable source for those claims about antifa?

And I must say that YouTube clip is just silly. What are you trying to tell me?

The sourceS are all over the net, outside the mainstream media. You just have to look around.

As for the movie clip, what I was saying is the current Left is a CULT. And if you DARE walking just slightly off the beaten path, they will come for you, and they will destroy you. It happened repeatedly over and over for many, MANY traditional liberals.

An example. Lacy Green is a big Youtuber with 1.7 million subscribers. She was always very liberal pretty "far left" to some extent. But she DARED to listen to what the "other side" had to say...

Here's the part of a 2 hours interview that point out the exact moment when Lacy Green saw what her "friends" were truly like:





Also, look up the "Walk Away" movement.

Black lives matter. Full stop.

Policing in the United States needs reform.

There is a right and a wrong side of history to land on here. It isn't difficult.